Tips for Strengthening the Dealer/Vendor Relationship
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Tips for Strengthening the Dealer/Vendor Relationship: It’s no secret that the relationship between dealers and vendors can be filled with tension. A strong relationship, however, can give shops a competitive edge as vendors go the extra mile to help you to keep your customers happy. From product advice to supply chain insights, your vendors are an essential part of your success.
In this episode of Bicycle Retail Radio, James Ayres, Domestic Sales Manager at Haro Bicycles, and Phil Cohen, NBDA board member and owner of Chain Reaction Bicycles, throw open the doors on their thriving dealer/vendor relationship so that you, too, can enjoy the benefits of a match made in heaven.
Please enjoy listening to Tips for Strengthening the Dealer/Vendor Relationship.
Support the show (https://nbda.com/articles/donation-form-pg511.htm#!form/Donate)
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Episode 23 – Phil & Haro COMPLETED
Tue, 8/18 10:42AM • 48:33
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
retailers, customer, bikes, business, bicycle, manufacturer, dealer, Haro, relationships, year, conversations, vendors, brand, talk, chain reaction, store, buy, expectation, people, sales
SPEAKERS
Rod Judd, Chad Pickard, Phil Cohen, James Ayres
Rod Judd 00:10
You are listening to bicycle retail radio brought to you by the National Bicycle Dealers Association.
Phil Cohen 00:16
Hello, this is Phil Cohen, one of the board members of the National bicycle dealer Association. I want to welcome you to today’s podcast that is a part of bicycle retail radio, which is a podcast of the National Bicycle Dealer Association. If you’re not a member, please join. We appreciate that our support and our goal is to continue to bring bicycle dealers to excellence. And today, what we want to do is we want to talk about relationships between bicycle retailers and their vendors. They can be strained and I think after we finish today, maybe we’ll all have some ideas on things we want to do. To improve those relationships, before I get started, I want to kind of paint a picture. If you’re driving, please don’t do this. But if you’re not driving, what I want you to do, is I want you to close your eyes. Okay? Now, I want you to imagine, imagine your best customers, the customers that love your shop, the customers that just get you and they get what you do and they get what you’re about. And they would drive 30 miles past 10 other shops to come see you. The customers that we absolutely when we see them pull up, we love that they’re coming to our stores, and we just love everything about them. We can’t get enough. Okay, now what I want you to do is I want you to go the other end of the spectrum. I want you to think about the customers that when they pull up, everybody in the shop has a sigh and they just go Oh no, not this guy. Again, the customers that you wish would find your competitors. The ones you’ve suggested that they find your competitor. And for some reason, they just keep coming back. They, they take up a lot of your time. They don’t spend a lot of money. They are always complaining. We all have those customers. We all have both types of customers. Now what I want you to do, as I want you to open your eyes, I want you to think about it. I want you to think about what type of customer Are you because, in the bicycle business, the retailers are the customers for the vendors. And a lot of times I think that’s lost. And I think there’s a way to be a good customer. But I don’t want us to lose sight as retailers that we are the customers. And if I didn’t introduce myself, my name is Phil Cohen. I am a bicycle shop owner. I have a shop here in Evans, Georgia, a suburb of Augusta, Georgia. And we’ve been here for this starting our 30th year Now, what we do here is we try to have great relationships with our customers and our vendors. And speaking of vendors, I’ve got one of my best vendors, one of the vendors that I believe, just get it, and I’m thrilled with this company. And I’m thrilled with this fellow I’m about to introduce and his name is James Ayres. Now James doesn’t get a big head, but I believe that you as a sales Operations Manager for Haro, bicycles, I believe that we have a great relationship and I try to pattern all my relationships with my vendors after our relationship. And I guess that’s what I want to talk today about our relationship and about why it’s good what we can do to improve relationships in our industry, and what we have to do to make things work you know, we’re in the same boat, we may be indifferent ends. To the boat, but we want to keep sailing towards our Bright Futures together. So James, introduce yourself if I didn’t do a correct job and tell us about yourself and what your job is.
James Ayres 04:11
Wow, I don’t even know where to start. What kind of words. Thank you. Thank you. Well, as Phil said, my name is James Ayres on the Sales Operations Manager here at Haro bikes. starting my 13th year MRO came to the vendor side, a little bit of a weird route. I was previously on the publishing side, moved out to California in 1999, and was lucky enough to land a job that was then ride publishing doing ride BMX magazine, and for those of you who might remember it’s a title called BMX Business News. So, you know, seven or eight years there, came over to the Haro side got to see you know, in-depth how the business works and, you know, been here ever since, you know, and then as Phil said, I think we certainly share he talked about great customers and the ones that you like seeing come through your door and I think pleased to say that, you know, anytime we see chain reactions, number of, you know, pull up on any of our other IDs. You know, everybody kind of jokes like, Nope, I’m getting it. No, no, no, that’s my weight. So let’s talk to me. It’s a fun relationship. Okay. How did I do? Did I cover everything? Is that good?
Phil Cohen 05:14
Yeah, yeah, that was great. In fact, I think about how it started, you were actually traveling with one of the reps The first time I met you when you actually walked into the store that was probably I don’t know, at least 10 years ago. And I believe I think you’re right. That was our first meeting. And it was nice for somebody from the home office to come out and see a little Podunk store in the middle of at the time, just a suburb outside of Augusta, Georgia, and we’re just a single store location and how do we rate that we get somebody of importance like you to come to see us. But, but I think that that was the beginning of a relationship that turned into a friendship that turned into, you know what it is today, which is a strong friendship and mutual respect for each other and what we do and how we value each other. And that to me is just that’s what I search for and I yearn for in all my relationships. I was thinking about it, if you think about relationships, you know who in their work in any aspect of your life? Why would you want an adversarial relationship with anyone, you know, life’s tough enough to go on that or not this person or I got to deal with this person or, you know, we should try to search for happiness and enjoyment in our workday and our family life and everything like that. So I was just thinking, you know, a lot of times we depend on vendors and their relationships strained. And maybe the vendors depend on good customers that sometimes they wish they didn’t have to depend on. But, you know, we can fix all that we can make these relationships good and healthy and strong. And that’s kind of what I want to talk about today. I really think James that early owns when you told me, I think you may regret it now, but you gave me your phone number your car and you said, Hey, call me anytime you want. You’re like, oh man, that do that. But then I pick up on it. I’m one of those guys, I took you up on it, I called you. And I remember, our rep was telling us how we were doing. And I thought, Hey, we’re having a pretty good year. And I remember I used to call you and ask you how we were doing, probably to the point where you’re like, Oh, no, not this guy. But because we weren’t. But I really wanted to know I wanted to know where I stood because I’m just the one store location in a smaller market. And I really liked the idea that it was important that I was an important customer. And I think what you guys did you guys made me feel like an important customer. Even though when the biggest story even though I didn’t buy the most stuff. I felt valued as a customer and that went a long way in making these have a fond feeling towards your brand, as well as the people their horror
James Ayres 08:01
That’s awesome. Those were fun days, they are fun days. You know, I remember some of those conversations, you know, where you would call me up and say, Hey, you know, how am I doing? How am I tracking, you know, compared to last year, and it was done in such a great atmosphere to where we would have fun with it. And we would joke about it. And we would talk about, you know, maybe other competitors who were in that marketplace. And, you know, I would joke Well, you know, these guys, you know, these guys bought, you know, Kenmore mountain bikes, you know, do you have any floor space? You know, what can we do? You’d say something like 10 more bikes, I’ll give you an order for 20. You know, it was just that kind of back and forth, where it was never, like, I don’t think either one of us ever felt like anybody was trying to turn the screws on the other person. It was just super fun to have those conversations, you know, and to talk about things like year over year performance, and how are things trending and what are you seeing in your marketplace that, you know, maybe I’m not seeing on a national level, or maybe vice versa, what I’m seeing on the national level that you might not be seeing yet so I love those colors. Because it told me that you were engaged in your business with us. And then it gave me a chance to kind of, you know, have a little bit of fun with it. And I’ll tell you what if there’s one thing that I know about our conversations, we’ve not had a fun conversation. So I think that’s just a testament to our glowing personalities.
Phil Cohen 09:18
Thank you, right. It’s always fun, always fun. But I think early on, I remember, I think even one year I was thinking, you know, hey, how can we be one of your top dealers or what constitutes? So I even think one year you guys did some awards for some of your top dealers. And fortunately, we were able to get one of those awards. And I think maybe even genesis of that might have been some of our conversations. I don’t disagree. I can picture the award in my head. If I’m not mistaken. We gave it to you during Interbike. If I’m not mistaken, you did. You did give it to me during Interbike and I was very proud and I’m in my office right now and it’s sitting across the room and next to a couple of other special things, and it’s a special moment because it just shows, you know, our hard work along with your good service. That’s what we can do you know, and it’s, it’s pretty fun. Pretty fun. Agreed. The biggest thing I think that people struggle with, and I think that we got off on a really good start as we had a really good communication because I think a lot of times, vendors want to just shove as much inventory in, and I’m sure you know, there are lots of programs to help us sell-through. But I think a lot of times, the programs aren’t well thought out or they’re not thought out with the dealer in mind. And I don’t think sometimes the dealers have an understanding of what the manufacturers and vendors have to go through to get that product in place. And I know you took a lot of patience and a lot of time with me to explain to me, you know why it was Difficult to change this or change that or what the lead times were and why you’re out of bikes and what happened. And, you know, you forecast this and you forecast double and you sold triple. And then it made me not any less disappointed that I didn’t have a product to sell if you had a gap in inventory for two or three weeks, and I ran out too because we were doing really well. But why that happened in what you were doing about it. And I felt like a true partner in the business and I felt like I was kind of an insider like you were telling me things that maybe they’re not for public consumption, but there was nothing wrong with you explaining to me how you guys got in that bind and how you’re getting out of it, and how I fit into that. So I think communication is key. absolutely key. And if we as dealers don’t let you know what our needs are they In, how are you going to know? Then we have to understand what you guys go through to so we can be part of the solution to inventory is thinking about back when we first started back in 1991, we opened. And it was pretty much every model of every bike was sitting in a warehouse. And I’m sure that cash flows on, it’s healthy for the manufacturers because it seemed like they had a lot of inventory sitting around. You could just call up anytime you wanted and get a bike sent right away.
James Ayres 12:32
Those days are pretty much gone. I think. I think you’re right. And you know, just to circle back around on something that you touched on. One of the reasons why I like sharing some of that insider info with you was because you were receptive to hearing it. You know, when we talked about lead times and we talked about forecasting, and we talked about, you know, the sourcing parts and those things, you gave me a chance to explain why we were where we were, I think two Often, you know, retailers shall remain nameless, you know, it’s not uncommon for a manufacturer to hear, you know, something along the lines of insert brand name here. Oh, those guys are out of bikes again. They’re idiots. They’re morons. They don’t know what they’re doing, you know, they can’t forecast it. You know, in some of those conversations, I don’t even get the chance to explain why the supply chain broke down at what stage the supply chain broke down. That’s something that I always appreciated with our conversations was not only did you want that information, but you were also very receptive to hearing it. So anytime I’m able to explain why we got in the bind that we’re in that’s a welcome invitation to me if you know our company, PRESIDENT JOE Hawk, he has a saying, and that thing goes bad news can be good information. That’s always what I felt like, you know when we were having some of those supply chain issue conversations. Okay, so what I’m about to tell you is bad news, but it’s good information. And more importantly, I can tell you how we got here and maybe even more important than that, how we work our way around. I think it’s a total give and takes, there are things that I’m going to know about our business Tardos business, just being inside these four walls, that if I share that with you, that will make you a stronger retailer, whether that’s when inventory is coming in whether I see a sale price coming up on a certain model or overstocked on, things like that. So I feel like because you gave us an opportunity to explain why some of those hiccups were happening, that made me want to be more forthcoming isn’t the right word. But when I would see a potential sale opportunity coming up, you’re always the first guy that I reached for because like we talked about, it was a friendly environment. It was a friendly relationship. I was able to explain something, so therefore I felt like okay, I just had to give some bad news. Let me see if I can help with some good news.
Phil Cohen 14:46
Yeah, that was the case because it made me feel important. It made me feel valued, that you would share information like that with me. And it also, I felt like you guys are truly my partner and I want my partner to be successful. I want my partner to be healthy. I want my partner to be there for me. Because guess what, next week, next month next year, I need more bikes, I need you guys to be able to provide high-quality bikes in a timely manner. And so I want to know, Hey, what happened, why this happened. Plus, if you give me a heads up three or four weeks out before the troubles coming, or you give me some visibility, now I can hedge a little bit, I can bring a few more bikes in either from you or from another company, I can make a contingency so that I have products in the store to sell. And I’m not having a bad month because everybody ran out and I don’t have anything so and I have those relationships with other vendors too because I really try to cultivate them. And because of that, I think, you know, my business is better. I think I’m a better customer. You know, I used to joke with you. I said what makes a good customer something I think maybe I don’t know if he said If I said it, but we were talking to buy lots of stuff and pay for it on time, and I’m like, Oh man, I can do that, you know. And there were times when I couldn’t buy lots of stuff, and I struggled to pay for it on time. And that’s part of the process. Think of a business learning how to be a great business, which is what the NBA, we want to make all of our businesses great. I’ve won so much as an NBA member and joined groups like p two, to help make me a better customer. And I think the investment you guys and companies and you know, our industry makes in strengthening retailers, the better off we all are because he shipped me lots of stuff and I don’t pay for it. That doesn’t work out for either of us. You know, if we come up with programs that aren’t feasible, that didn’t work out for us, so that communication allows, I think sometimes for people in different markets, tailoring those programs. So it makes sense For the dealer, you know, we’re all different. I was thinking about some of our board members summer in Arizona, and they don’t do any business in the summer because it’s too hot. And then some of them are in South Dakota and they don’t do any business in the winter because it’s too cold. And you know, we’re here in an area that’s nice most of the year in our business, you know, drops off seasonally, but not as bad as other places. And, you know, we’re all different. We all have different needs. And I think when I can communicate my needs to the company, and you can work with me, and I get my bikes to want even the right amount, the right time, can turn I can pay for them. I mean, everybody’s happy. At least I thank you
James Ayres 17:41
very much. So and I know that’s not always an easy puzzle to put together. And I think that’s why, you know, those check-in conversations once every few weeks, at least once a month, are so key to both of us being healthy. Again, I can kind of share some things that I’m seeing within these four walls. You can share immediate needs while and future needs with me. And we kind of take it together as a team. I can’t think of a time where we haven’t been able to find some middle ground on just about anything. And I think this kind of circle back around to, you know what we were talking about earlier in the week. One of the things that I think is key for both sides, you have to be a good listener.
Phil Cohen 18:22
Oh, man, I’m glad you said that. Because I mean, think about it as retailers. And when I train my salespeople, I said, hey, what does that have you? God gave you one mouth and two ears, you know, you’re supposed to use them in that proportion and try to explain to them, Listen, listen, the customer will give you the information. You have to be able to know which questions to ask and then shut up and listen, they don’t want to know how awesome you are, what ride you did last week. You’re here to serve them. And that’s the point that I really want to drive home to the retailers. retailers. We are the customer the name outside my store doesn’t say hi back says chain reaction. Now I’m proud to be a hora dealer. But my brand is Chain Reaction, and I’m the customer. And I need to be treated as such, we always talk about another thing I think funny. You know how people say the customers are always right. Well, a lot of times the customers aren’t right. But the customers are always the ones that bring the money. And without the money, we can’t operate. So we have to serve our of our customers, and we have to give them value. So they’ll keep coming back and keep bringing the money. And sometimes I see vendors that forget who the customer is, I questioned that. And I’m like, wow, that’s not really that’s the tail wagging the dog. You know, it just, you know, I don’t know, do you? What do you think about that as far as the retailer’s being the customer and we’re not always right and sometimes we’re paying the ass but we are the customers? You know, you’re there to serve us, I believe, I guess you have two customers, you have the retailers and you have the end-user. We do. We do. But I think at the end of the day, it’s important to know what order those two come in. And I also think that it’s important to know that at the end of the day, here’s the reality. There are way more suppliers out there than there are retailers. No doubt about it a level shop like yours, you have got the pick of the litter, you could carry any brand that you want. So at the end of the day, if a brand like Haro is making life difficult for you, in no way, shape, or form, should we be getting your business? So I think that’s something that’s monumentally important for all manufacturers to realize is that Hey, guys, at the end of the day, the number of retailers out there, it’s not getting any bigger and if we’re really being honest, the number of good retailers out there is shrinking just as proportionally. So the idea that we could be in an A level shop if a manufacturer isn’t thinking along the lines of What can I bring to this retailers business? I think they might be missing the boat a little bit. Yeah, I like the way you put that what can you do to serve your customer, the dealer and that’s the thing you know, service it’s about service. You know, what do you do? You guys do a lot of things you design and your spec and you build a great bike, but you know, lots of people do your app, right? else do you did what sets you apart? You know, what’s gonna make people like me want to be a Harley dealer for life, you know. And the thing is, you can’t rest on what you did last year. You got to be good this year. You got to be consistent. And you know, fortunately, you guys are and that’s another thing about service. When we have warranty issues. You could build the best bike in the world if I get bad service in your warranty department or bad service in your shipping department. I mean, that drags your image down if we have the greatest bikes in the world and my guys don’t assemble them properly and make sure they’re set up right Don’t tune them up properly, then, you know, we’re gonna lose. So I mean, we have to be consistent and how do you guys at Haro feel about the service you give your dealers? You know, what do you guys talk about? Because I know there’s so many aspects of vendors service to dealers, you know, do you prioritize any particular one? Do you struggle in some areas? You know, how do you feel about especially service because service has so many dynamic points from anybody’s perspective. But how does Haro look at what you bring how they value, I guess what you guys do for your retailers.
Chad Pickard 22:40
As a retailer, I filled out my very first America’s best bike shop application over five years ago. And to be honest, the first time I was a little anxious, I felt the result of the process would either be the seal of approval or the seal of disapproval for my bike stores. It was shortly after they handed out the awards that I realized this is an excellent opportunity to work with staff on our messaging and customer experiences in our stores. ABBS kind of became the coach we used to find holes in our sales process or staff training. Where else are you going to get critical feedback like that? Go to NBDA.com for more details and to sign up for America’s Best Bike Shop Program.
James Ayres 23:24
Well, I think it’s probably safe to say that if I were to categorize us or picture us, I kind of feel like we are the little Engine That Could you know, we’re a 23 person organization and oftentimes, admittedly, we work in a very reactionary atmosphere. That’s not always great. But I think one of the things that we pride ourselves on and this is hopefully, anybody listening to this would feel the same way our sales department always always always will try to give the dealer what they’re asking for. Yes, we have a printed dealer program, you know, a certain level of buy-in you know, buy as many bikes you get this personal level this stating, we understand though that although that is a printed program, there has to be some flexibility in that. So I think that speaking is a sales department or even an organization overall if there are things that we trip on because of our size, I don’t know of another brand out there that will go the extra mile to try to make it right when we realize that we’ve made a mistake, and we’ve caused a retailer an inconvenience. And that’s it. Boy, we could spend an hour just talking about that alone, you know, reaching out to a Chinese battery manufacturer to try to source keys for a customer who lost their keys to their e-bike battery like that, where it’s you know, would be natural for anybody and another sales target to say, well wait a minute, that’s not my job. That’s one of the things that I’m kind of proud of with our sales team is that is a phrase that you just will not hear out of this organization. It’s not my job. We always, always, always try to help where we can and I think that just kind of spirals back around to the point you made about being a good listener. I understand that again, there’s a program out there but if a retailer is telling me, hey, I’ve got a special circumstance is there something that you can do for me in this special circumstance, there’s always always always I am 100% convinced of this believe it beyond a shadow of a doubt, there is always something you can do. The middle ground might not be where either party wants to be, but there is always a middle ground. So I think that’s where it is incumbent on the manufacturer to be able to find that middle ground and be able to find it through a conversation where neither side is getting all crazy you tell me what you need from me and then I tell you where I can meet you. And you know, hopefully, we settle on some common ground but at the end of the day, you know, especially you know, with chain reaction horror, Oh, those are always easy conversations to have only when we were open the credit departments they card. No just kidding. Just kidding. That was a joke. No joke.
Phil Cohen 25:56
That’s funny because it is your warranty department. It is your Sales Department is your accounting. I mean, they all work together. And it’s like, things aren’t always perfect and you have issues. But maybe it’s because you’re a smaller organization, maybe because the culture that Joe has set up there, the culture service, but maybe it’s that reason why I don’t have trouble talking to somebody in shipping or talking to Amy, about a bill or for having a cash flow issue and tell her, Hey, we’re gonna be late this month, or if I’m right up at my limit, and I say, Hey, can you go ahead and ship that? She’s like, Well, you know, but once we communicate really well, it goes back to that communication. Because a lot of times dealers don’t know that they have auctions and also dealers, a lot of times I think just like a bad customer, a bad dealer will take advantage of the vendor, take advantage and end up trying to beat somebody up over something. You don’t do that to your partner. He should never do that to your partner. You should say, hey, wow, you got screwed up. Can you make it right? But you know, just like we have abusive customers that walk through our retail stores, and I’m sure there are dealers out there that are not the greatest ones and you wish they go away. You know, how do you deal with stuff like that? Nobody likes to turn away business. But at some point, you know that hey, abusive customers need to go away. If you’re
James Ayres 27:23
just like you described in your introduction, there are definitely numbers that pop up on our caller ID where literally, it seems like wow, the entire sales department had to go to the bathroom at the same time. Yeah, we definitely have the 100% and I think that’s why you asked a great, I don’t know if it was necessarily a question but you were kind of leading into it. There are perks isn’t the right word, but there are benefits because of where you are in our food chain. And I guess if I’m going to be totally transparent, you’ve earned a lot of the things that we do from time to time. You know, you need a bike shop, free freight, you know, out of our California warehouse, whatever. I’m going to do that because I know that on your next order, you know, when I say, hey, Phil, I’ve got a 2017 carbon hardtail, you know, what can you do for me on it, you’re going to be like, you know, I can help with that. So it’s a very reciprocal relationship when it gets challenging is when you’ve got to kind of look at that dealer and say, Mr. dealer, you know, you’re asking me to send a 90-pound e-bike from one end of the country to the other. You’re asking me to cover the freight on it because you ordered it two days late. Can I meet you in the middle and split the freight with you? You know what, I’ll just go buy it from somebody else, then. You’ll never hear anybody in our sales department say, you should do that. Do you know why? Because you bought six bikes from us so far in the last year, and now you’re facing, you know, you’ll never get that out of our organization. And I’m not proud of that. But I think the flip side of that coin is for those dealers who do earn a few special favors here and there. You’ve earned every last one of those things that you mentioned early on, you buy lots and you pay your bill on time. That in this industry is gold. And I think that’s one of the things that any manufacturer could agree on is it is baffling to me when we get retailers who are 90 plus days past due yet you’re friends with them on Facebook and you say that they just went to Cancun? Wait what not that never happens, does it? Never… No
Phil Cohen 29:25
Well but that really comes down to the quality of customer you’re dealing with because if you have a customer that has that much contempt for you that they would take their dollars and not pay their bills and I understand struggling in the last 30 years I should have gone out of business twice I was just too stupid to know the first time and the second time I got I got real scared and said whoa Something’s got to give you know their ebbs and flows in our businesses. And you know, none of us are perfect. A lot of us are enthusiasts and we know a lot about bicycles and we love the sport. We love people. Sometimes we’re not great business people. And that’s why I think, you know, our industry needs to help us, help us make good choices. Don’t send me 60% of my annual volume in one shipment. And I’m not going to be able to pay for it on time. That just doesn’t make sense. In loading us up, it doesn’t make sense, being a good partner makes sense. I just hope that when we work together towards a common goal, which to me would be being a good customer buying lots of stuff and paying for it on time when you guys make programs that allow us to do that, so we don’t hang ourselves, you know, don’t give us enough rope to hang ourselves. We’re going to be better customers long term. And a lot of us need some coaching. We need some handhold and that’s what the NBA is here to do. It’s to help you know, we want retailers to be excellent. We want retailers to continue to grow and to continue to thrive, not just survive. I just can’t say enough over the years since I’ve been NBDA member, how much I’ve gotten mentorship and Dino, there’s some really sharp people in our industry. And I have access to those people through phone calls or emails. And they’re there. Most of them are very, very helpful if somebody like me calls up so, you know, having that ability, and I think a lot of the best vendors, they also have people in place to help me if I’m struggling, and I can talk to you or I can talk to Amy or I can talk to somebody who can help me figure it out on things that I’m not sure about, or at least just be a sounding board. Those are extremely, extremely helpful situations. I’ve used those to my advantage. Once I learned that they were out there for me, I’m not shy, I will pick up the phone and call so that’s, you know, going back to why you gave me your cards so many years ago and you rue the day Did that right?
James Ayres 32:03
I don’t know what what you could possibly be referring to.
Phil Cohen 32:09
Hey, I have your personal cell phone number. So that was really when you’re traveling and you see my phone call, you’re like, what is he calling me about? I’m gonna be patient this week? Not, that that happens often or last week?
James Ayres 32:28
Yeah, I think that’s such a great point about when you have an issue and you need a contact on the inside, knowing that you’ve got a resource with that manufacturer that you’re working with. I think ultimately, at the end of the day, we all just want to be able to help whether that’s from a manufacturing level helping our retailer whether that’s a retail level trying to help their customer, I think, you know, in this is I think just human nature. You know, where we struggle is when we have that retailer on the other end of the phone, and if we’re not able to solve a problem, maybe he is a retailer from New England and it’s the middle of winter. And he’s in the shop today. And he’s just lonely. And he wants to talk about everything under the sun. Not saying that those retailers exist. But when they do, it’s kind of like, Okay, then I gotta find a way to. So the long story short to that is, whenever you call, the calls are irrelevant. They’re purposeful, they are usually either expressing gratitude or asking for a hand with something. And that’s something that I could do something with both of those calls, I can accept the kind words, and if there is ever something that you’re in a jam with, I can move heaven and earth to make sure that that jam goes away quickly. And I think that as manufacturers, that’s, that kind of needs to be our role with all of our retailers. Because at the end of the day, what I know for sure is that this is business that we have to earn. It does not come inherently to brands like us and like you said early on. If we’re not going that extra mile then we don’t deserve it. So I’ll tell any retailer that would like to call me up how appreciative I am of their business. Even the ones that Challenging those guys, you know, they make the world go around too. So you just try to meet as many needs as you can at the end of the day.
Phil Cohen 34:06
Well, and hopefully we think about our challenging relationships in any aspect of our lives as ones that are in transition for the better, because there’s always hope. You know, I think a lot of times, once people have better understandings of each other, they get along a lot better and they understand and that’s the thing I think when you’re talking about, if I call up and I need something, well, I try not to be too needy, because like, I need to bank you know, have in our bank account between us I have to, you know, have a good balance because I never know one day I may be in a bind, and I may need you to pull a string and do something for me special. And I don’t want to be the guy that every time you turn around, oh no. What does he want this time? I want to be the guy who’s a good customer, but you know, the one or two or three times a year that some happens? I need something to happen. I was like, I can have expected to happen. You know, in a lot of times, I don’t believe my expectations are unreasonable. And that brings me to expectations. I think in our relationship, I think expectations and those having those expectations defined really go a long way and what quality of relationships we have. So how do you feel about that word expectation?
James Ayres 35:24
I think it’s a great word. I think sometimes it’s a bit of a loaded word. But I think that in our business, it’s an important one. Because I think that you know, what characteristic is inherent to our business. The word preseason, everybody has a precision program, in the way I was taught in this business was that the precision time period, you know, when that outside rep walks in with that shiny new catalog, and you know, and he opens it up to page one, I was taught that that is basically the time where you sit down and you partner and you go through and you say, Hey, I can do really well with this model in my shop, this model, I really don’t have that customer. And I think that’s where as a manufacturer, we have to trust you to know that you are the expert of your market, you’re the expert of your market, you’re the expert of your business, you’re the expert of your customer. So I think that there is that expectation out there that when we do launch a precision program, and we go in, and we, you know, open up the shiny new catalog, it’s a give and take what’s going to work for you what’s going to work for me and at the, again, tying back into that word expectation. I’m going to expect that there will be something on my menu that you’ll find appealing and want to order. And like you said, You know, I will expect that you’ll, you’ll order it, you’ll pay for it on time. When a customer comes in and asks questions about it. You’ll be knowledgeable about the brand, you’ll be knowledgeable about the product. Because ultimately, that’s where I see the most value, not only in a chain reaction but in all of our retailers. You guys tell our story. At the end of the day, it’s my belief that you can have the fanciest website in the world but that website isn’t going to tell our story to face to face as a retailer would. And when it’s a retailer that’s excited about the brand excited about the people behind the brand. That’s gold, that’s gold to a manufacturer. So again, kind of, you know, going back to that word expectation, I would expect that there are things you know, that I’ll rely on you on throughout the course of the year, being a good brand ambassador, telling a consumer you know why there’s value in this bike versus competitors. And I think there is an expectation on my end, you know, some of them we’ve touched on before, you know, certainly no shortage of inventory and supply chain issues over the last year, year and a half. And I think a lot of manufacturers could probably say that, but I have an expectation to make sure that when you do call in and you do need a favor, you do need a sounding board, that we’re there to meet that need. I’ve never understood how a manufacturer who doesn’t know your business to the level of detail that you do could come in and say you know, this product is right For you, this product is right for you. I think that they can certainly ask if they can try something in your store. But that’s always been a bit of a dysfunctional thing for me when a retailer is telling me Look, you make a great $10,000 carbon wonder bike, but we just don’t have you know, the Tour de France guy coming in here that’s not our market. You know, if you want to sell that level, buy it, you’d need to go see Johnny dig, we’ll down the street, that kind of thing. So I think as far as expectation goes, it’s something that needs to be tempered and talked about and put on the table early on, whether it’s the preseason time period or their relationship in general. And not only do I have to understand it as a manufacturer but so does my entire sales force, whether that’s an inside sales rep or an outside sales rep.
Phil Cohen 38:44
I really appreciate the in-depth description. You put a lot of value in the bicycle retailer. You know, we’re the tip of the spear out here for most brands and most products. There is a lot of good shops out there. And then there’s a lot of shops that aren’t And some of those shops aren’t doing the job. Some of them are doing a great job. We try to get better every day is our store great. I tell people our stores great 50% of the time, the other 50% keeps me up at night. And, you know, we have room to improve as a store our training, lots of things we can improve. And we need to try to continually get better, go ahead and raise the bar challenge the dealers to be better. But what happens when you have a dealer that doesn’t step up? That’s not a good dealer. Are you just gonna continue to do business with that dealer? Or do they eventually go away? You know, because I think bad players in any market are bad for all of us. Just curious how you feel about that.
James Ayres 39:48
It’s interesting statement. If I’m being totally transparent, I would say that we have a pretty high percentage of our dealers who don’t rely on as an anchor brand who do well. With 50 units a year with us, it doesn’t mean that we like them any less, but we understand we’re not a huge part of their offering. And that’s okay. We would we love to be positioned in every chain reaction out there. Sure, we would certainly make my life a lot easier. But I think just because they’re smaller, and they buy less from me, I think ultimately, at the end of the day, again, he goes back to you hit on so many good points at the beginning of this. We enjoy doing business with people that we enjoy. So if I’m talking to one of our dealers, who has 20 or 30 or 40 bikes with us a year, I understand that I need to cultivate their relationship first. Because if I’m a good salesperson what’s going to wind up happening, or at least my goal is, what I hope happens is that over the years as we continue to work together, he gets that sense of just kind of like what you alluded to at the beginning of the phone call. Somebody on the other end of this line cares about my business. He keeps calling me once a month to check in on me. I don’t admittedly buy a lot of products from But you know what he’s easy to work with. He does make a competitively SPECT bike, I’m kind of tired of getting the screws turned, let’s give this a try. At the end of the day, that’s kind of what a salesperson’s role is, you know, you keep feeding those relationships, and you hope that there’s no more business to be had there. I think the one thing that we can kind of all agree on is this pie is not getting any bigger. I don’t think the overall bicycle market
Phil Cohen 41:26
and reward is only right. So, unfortunately, it’s not getting bigger, but we’re working to change that at every aspect.
James Ayres 41:33
Absolutely. And I think that there are so many people out there that are doing such important work. But at least right now, what I know about this business is that if Haro has a successful year, that means we took market share from somebody else, and it works exactly vice versa too. So it’s being able to cultivate those relationships, ask the questions, be able to get the retailer on the phone and just say, you know, Hey, I know you’ve only bought BMX bikes from us in the past. Would you be willing to try a couple of our kids, you know, entry-level mountain bikes throwing it out there? 98% of the time, you might get told no, but 2% of the time, you might get told Yes. I think as long as you can ask that question in a friendly way to where the dealer understands, you’re just asking for an opportunity. That’s all you can do. That is true.
Phil Cohen 42:17
And I guess I take it for granted because we have a great relationship and, and I really, really, really go out of my way to try to cultivate good relationships with everybody in my life, especially the people I send money to every month. So no ex-wives, I don’t have any ex-wives of sending money to..
Chad Pickard 42:38
What does being a member of the NBDA mean? Go to nbda.com to learn about member benefits, programs, and preferred partner discounts.
Phil Cohen 42:51
As we come to a close today, are there anything you want to add any specific things that maybe we didn’t touch on the You know, we could talk about relationships in business, because a lot of these things translate over to every part of your life, you know, positive relationships.
James Ayres 43:08
Yeah, I think that two big things be a better listener than you are a talker. Understand that there’s always a middle ground there. And it just at the end of the day, be a kind person. You know, this is supposed to be a fun business that we’re in. And I understand that dollars are getting traded across the table, you know, every day, but like I said, we do business with people that we enjoy talking to, and we want to have conversations with so that’s where being just a good-hearted human being, hopefully energy a little bit of this along the way.
Phil Cohen 43:41
Well, I think that goes a long way. I was going to add at the end, I wanted to challenge all the vendors just remember whether you dominate the market or you’re just struggling to break into this market. Don’t forget who your customer is. Don’t forget that they are the customer. customers need to be treated properly. Whether they’re buying an $8 tube or a $10,000 bicycle, their customer in the guy that buys the $8 tube today might buy the $10,000 bike next week. You know, they need to be treated with respect and kindness and patience in vendors. Please remember the retailers are the customers. And I would tell the retailers, remember that you’re the customer but remember how bad customers act and don’t act like that. And work hard to be a great customer when a great customer calls the people on the other end, smile and are happy to answer the phone. And I think we should work really, really hard for all the retailers to be great customers. And with we all do that if we’re all looking out for each other, then we’re going to be great partners, then we’re going to all be profitable then we’re going to grow this pie and everybody rides off into the sunset half. Amen to that. Amen to that, or vintage bikes as long as it were on bicycles, right? Got two wheels and a set of pedals. I’m a happy camper. Well, James, I really, really appreciate you taking the time today to speak with us. I think good relationships make for a good life. And none of us are in this by ourselves. We depend on each other told somebody we’re sitting in different parts of the same boat. So if the retailer’s go down, you guys might be up in the front of the boat, but you’re coming with us eventually. So we all got to work together. And we can all be strong in this industry can be strong. Yeah, we’re down in stowage. You guys are up in the first class, maybe up on the top, maybe you’ll get in the lifeboat quicker. But no, that’s kind of what we believe it with anything else, James?
James Ayres 45:40
No, I just wanted to say thank you to you and NBDA for having me on and giving her this opportunity. Like I said early in the conversation, you know, these are always fun. So I seriously appreciate it. It’s been a good time. If anybody wants to get in touch with you. How can they reach you? Easy. Lots of phone numbers on our website www dot hora. bikes calm were pretty easy 1-800-289-4276 which would also be one 800 by Haro, DUI Haro, email wise again, pretty straightforward letter J as in James, and then my last name Aryef So if we read it across, it’ll kind of look like j rez at Haro bikes calm. I said hate mail as well. Please don’t send nudes. Just a joke. Just a joke. Let’s try to have a little fun with this. And yeah, as Phil will attest to I’m pretty flaky but I will absolutely positively get back to you. I’m working on that. That’s a 2020 goal of mine to be a better responder. Well, you do pretty good most of the time
Phil Cohen 46:38
is well, that one time. Remember that one time and we’re not gonna talk I? Yeah, we don’t need it. We don’t need to talk about that. You were traumatized? Because you got a new picture of me in the mail. Maybe that was the therapy goes a long way though. Yeah, exactly. Well, we always have fun we always cut up but one thing I was gonna say my name is Phil Cohen. You, anybody, wants to contact me it’d be Phil at chain reaction ga.com ga for GA. We’re not the big guys in England or Ireland or wherever they are. Chain Reaction ga.com. And my phone number here at the store is 706-855-2024. If anybody has any comments or questions or wants to chat, I love to chat. I’m a chatter. So anyway, we had fun. Don’t forget, if you’re not a member of the NVDA, please join. What are you waiting for? The other thing is a bicycle, retail radio. We have these podcasts, and they’re excellent. I don’t know how good this one is. But we’ll have to wait and see that we’ve got a bunch of them up. I recommend anybody in our industry to listen to them all and come back because we will be doing them adding new ones several a month and there’s tons of great information from a lot of different people. So join the NBA with To bicycle, retail radio, and let’s all be successful in this business. And again, James, thanks for showing us today.
James Ayres 48:06
I appreciate it. My pleasure. It was a blast.
Rod Judd 48:09
This has been bicycle retail radio by the National Bicycle Dealers Association. For more information on membership and member benefits, join us @NBDA.com
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The NBDA has been here since 1946, representing and empowering specialty bicycle dealers in the United States through education, communications, research, advocacy, member discount programs, and promotional opportunities. As shops are facing never-before-seen circumstances, these resources offer a lifeline. Together, we will weather this. We at the NBDA will not waver in our commitment to serving our members even during this challenging time—but we need your support.
Now is the time to become a member as we join together to make one another stronger. Whether you’re a retailer or an industry partner, your membership in the NBDA is one of the best investments you’ll make this year.
Learn more about the benefits of being a member and join now.
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