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Jeff Cayley – Owner Worldwide Cyclery, 3 locations CA, Nevada, Pennsylvania and online @ www.worldwidecyclery.com

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Retailer’s Top Takeaways:

1. Redefining what a bicycle shop can be.
2. E-commerce in Bicycle Retail
3. Making your business more personal

In this episode, we talk with Jeff Cayley, an entrepreneur who believes in chasing your passions in life, having fun doing it, and hopefully making some people happy along the way. Jeff is one impressive guy with a can’t help but notice business model. Redefining what a bike shop can be, he is leading consumer-centric retail by creating a uniquely holistic customer experience. Employing 40 of the most talented individuals his team curates extensive amounts of sharable media to make every interaction simply more than a shopping experience.

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Jeff Cayley – Owner Worldwide Cyclery, 3 locations CA, Nevada, Pennsylvania and online @ www.worldwidecyclery.com

Tue, 4/27

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, bike shop, business, bike, industry, bicycle, shop, jeff, customers, website, mountain bike, nika, online, staff, nbda, brand, ride, questions, cyclists, retailers

SPEAKERS

Heather Mason, NBDA , Jeff Cayley

NBDA   00:10

You are listening to bicycle retail radio brought to you by the National bicycle Dealers Association.

Heather Mason  00:30

Welcome to another episode of bicycle retail radio brought to you by the NBDA. This is Heather Mason, thank you for listening. If you’re a first time listener, be sure to check out all the previous episodes do us a favor and leave a review it helps members of our industry find our podcast. As always, the NBDA is thankful for our donors and association members. If you’d like to make a donation to the NBDA, you can do so directly on our web page. As always, the NBDA is thankful to our donors and association members. If you’d like to make a donation to the NBDA you can do so directly on our web page. A special thanks to Mercedes Benz USA for their recent support of the NBDA. The sprinters are a perfect mobile bicycle repair shop, a showroom delivery vehicle or even a race team van. And as a member of the NBA your business can take advantage of a special savings up to $4,000 off regular retail purchasing, plus their special financing offers. And we have a NBDA Mercedes Benz specialist. His name is Ken winters. He’s an amazing, amazing man. And you can reach him directly at 410-340-6114. That’s Ken winters at 410-340-6114. A special thanks again to Mercedes Benz USA. All right, today’s guest is Jeff Keighley. He is owner of worldwide cyclery they have three locations in California, Nevada and Pennsylvania. They employ 40 of the raddest most talented individuals. And he is very unique in the way that he approaches his retail environment by combining a leading eecom with a brick and mortar bicycle shops, three of them. He’s an entrepreneur who believes in chasing your passions in life, and having fun while doing it. And hopefully making some people happy along the way. He’s an impressive guy, we have an impressive backstory, and I can’t help but notice what he’s doing. And you should too. I’m so happy to have him on the show. So today’s takeaway is at the core of what Jeff and his dedicated team do is that they are redefining what a bicycle shop can be. So without further ado, welcome, Jeff.

Jeff Cayley  02:40

Thank you. I’m now just thinking about a Mercedes Sprinter van. So hopefully I’m not too lost into that topic in my head.

Heather Mason  02:47

Yeah, you tell I got a little lost. I’m actually working with Ken on on one for myself. So yeah, um, how are you, Jeff?

Jeff Cayley  02:56

I am doing great things are well, and I’m happy and healthy. And so yeah, all good. can’t ask for much more.

Heather Mason  03:02

It’s sort of funny how we met and I was a little almost nerve racking, you know, nerve wracking about how today was going to go because when we first met a little embarrassing story to our to our listeners, but I was writing an email to the NBDA members about how bicycle shops, how important it is to have a mission and vision statement. And I googled bicycle retail mission and vision statement and your business in the images came up front and center. And I was like, wow, I was just taken aback by how cool your website was and how you put it right out there. Exactly what makes your shop so unique. And so I sent it out, and then I get an email from you. And you’re like, hey, it’s so cool. You use our shop. This is awesome. But maybe you want to tell people who we are. And I was like, Oh my god, I’m so embarrassed. So thanks for giving me a pass and being so kind to come.

Jeff Cayley  03:58

No worries, no worries. I’m glad the image you know made it worthy of going in your long emails, which I read when you send them out there. Very good. Thank

Heather Mason  04:06

you. I know Jeff what I noticed immediately and all of our listeners should go to your website which is worldwide cyclery calm and and take a look but your content, your verbiage. It’s not standard bicycle shop like your website does not scream standard bicycle shop. It’s what I would say in your words, a uniquely holistic customer experience. And there’s so much there videos, blogs content. Talk to me about this, like, is this the vision of worldwide cyclery like how did it come?

Jeff Cayley  04:41

Yeah, yeah, it kind of was I mean, from the early years I always wanted to build I guess in my brain what I saw as a quote unquote modern day bike shop and that to me, really did it did a few things. Its was more focused. So it wasn’t just trying to be everything to everyone in our focus in particular is The high end mountain bike scene. And that’s kind of where we niche into, because Cycling is so complicated these days, and each sort of niche of cycling runs so deep and in order to really properly serve those customers, I feel like having a more narrow focus is helpful. So yeah, our narrow focus design mountain bikes, and then I wanted to do a lot of valuable content, right? It’s like how do we share knowledge with all of the people that are in high end mountain bikes, and riding mountain bikes. And so we read a ton of articles and make a lot of YouTube videos, a lot of educational Instagram stuff. So we’re, we’re trying to piece together like all of this valuable content with a great online presence and a great in store presence, where we demo high end mountain bikes. And so yeah, that’s that, to me, I guess was kind of what I viewed as like more of a modern day bike shop in my head. And that was the vision I had for it in the early years. And it took a decade to sort of get to where it is today. But it’s been a good fun ride. And yeah, we’re certainly still enjoying it.

Heather Mason  05:54

I live in breathe in the mountain bike world. So I used to be a professional racer. I got up this morning at 4am. And I went and I hit 20 miles in the Catskill clay, it was awesome. I’m driving back and I’m talking to someone on the phone about our interview today. And I’m like, yeah, worldwide cyclery. Jeff is coming on. And my my buddy, who, you know, he’s a good mountain biker, but he’s like, Oh, I know them. I bought something from them once. And I was like, I was like, tell me the backstory. And he’s like, Well, I was looking at a video on how to do something educational content that you put out. And next thing, you know, you know, he’s on your site already. And it was, I mean, it’s super convenient for him to just buy what he needed. Right, right then and there. So what an interesting small world but also a testament to what you’re doing. But you’re a mountain biker, too. Right, Jeff? That’s your background, right? Yeah,

Jeff Cayley  06:43

yeah, it was. So I mean, I grew up riding BMX and motocross got into mountain biking when I was about 13, and started racing when I was 14. And I raced pretty competitively, all the way until I was 20. And just about Oh, tired of breaking bones and stuff, because I was doing enduro and downhill predominantly for the racing. And, yeah, I loved it. It was good fun, but it’s not really a proper way to make much money and, you know, stay healthy, in terms of bone breakage. So yeah, I eventually decided to it kind of worked in the industry all throughout that as well. And that’s when I decided I’m going to probably pull back on the racing and open up a shop because I see an opportunity. And, yeah, that was when I was 21. So I opened a shop in 2011, just right off the back of a whole bunch of you know, mountain bike racing. And yeah, so I that’s kind of how I also knew so much about the mountain bike world and the products and all that sort of stuff.

Heather Mason  07:34

I feel like we could do a whole nother podcast on your backstory and how the shop got going and your business plan because I love that I’m so into that. But I really think the meat of today’s conversation is about everything you’re doing that’s so uniquely experienced, driven, and really engages the customer and creates what we’re looking to do as cyclists for life. Right. So you’re, you’re inspiring fun. But before we go on to my next question, which is about where your locations are, and your employees, I want to just touch on this, you said your focus is mostly on high end mountain bikes. For me and the bicycle world. I’ve been, you know, in the industry for 20 plus years. That seems tough for me. Had you have you ever thought of expanding or that was always your plan from the get go? And how has that been?

Jeff Cayley  08:16

Yeah, I mean, it really only works because we’re predominantly online. I mean, it wouldn’t realistically work if we tried to just be brick and mortar only because it’s just a narrow focus where I grew up and where I still spend most of the time where our largest retail store is, is in Newbury Park, California, which is about an hour northwest of LA and there is a huge mountain bike scene out here. There’s a lot of good trails, there’s just a lot of mountain bikers and road cyclists and it’s just a, you know, populated area have a lot of as plenty of affluence out here too, that can afford nice bikes. So I don’t know, I kind of grew up around the mountain bike scene. And that’s what I fell in love with. And that’s why when I wanted to open up a shop, like I just wanted to do high end mountain I was that’s what I liked. That’s what I enjoyed. I wasn’t you know, I’d worked at a sort of more traditional brick and mortar bike shop as a kid and a teenager and I just wasn’t, I wasn’t a fan of, you know, fixing flat tires on beach cruisers. And, you know, it’s like, oh, there’s like one bike a week that everyone’s excited to work on. I was like, well, I just kind of want to have a shop where we just only work on that, you know, so it was kind of a pipe dream as a teenager. But then as I got older, I realized like actually, you know if it’s a good healthy online business mixed in with like a really cool experiential retail business, it could kind of actually work. So yeah, that’s that’s how we pulled it off and how it really exists. I think, I mean, paying retail square footage rent and trying to just focus on one niche of cycling is Yeah, that’s not a good business plan by any means. Yeah, but yeah, for us, we’re you know, doing it mostly online and then kind of just like the retail aspect of it is kind of icing on the cake where we’d like you walk into one of our stores. All you see is high mountain bikes. They’re all demo bikes, and it’s just like high end mountain bikes and high mountain bike related gear. So it’s very focused when you walk in the store, and then a curation of the products on the website is as well. But yeah, the stores basically exist as icing on the cake to like the e commerce business.

Heather Mason  10:10

Yeah. So just because of shop focused on high end mountain bikes hasn’t been done before, doesn’t mean it can’t be done, right. We always feel like this is the first time we’ve done something that doesn’t mean it’s scary. It means it’s the first time it means awesome, right?

Jeff Cayley  10:23

I mean, it could be a huge opportunity for something really good.

Heather Mason  10:27

That’s what I’m saying. That’s the mindset I have. So all right, we have three locations, California, Nevada, Pennsylvania, how did it start, though? Did you focus on online first, or talk to me about just how the shop got going?

Jeff Cayley  10:38

It was always a combination. That was the plan from the beginning. And I think it’s, you know, it’s good in the bicycle industry that that is, I mean, I don’t know how upheld it is. But for the most part, a lot of the brands and distributors obviously wants you to have a real retail store, which I think is a great barrier to entry. So we don’t have people Hawking bike parts on eBay and Amazon out of their garage. But although that probably still does happen. Anyways, for us, it was was meant to be focused to have, you know, just kind of how it is now like a boutique, retail store, but online as well. And so that’s how we started. So we started with just 1000 square foot small shop here in Newbury Park. And it was just, it was myself doing the mechanic work. And then we were just keeping high end mountain bikes in there and tacked on a few brands that we can offer demo bikes for that actually were like these more higher end rare mountain bike brands that you couldn’t really demo anywhere else. Because so many of the shops were just like, Oh, we have trek or specialize their giant or Cannondale and it’s like, well, I want to ride intense or Da Vinci or Turner. I mean, this was back in like 2011 1213. And like so for us to have those brands and people to be able to come in and demo them, it was actually something really rare and unique. Because there were people who wanted those bikes and wanted something different wanted to ride something different before they pulled the trigger on it, but they kind of couldn’t. So that’s what we did from the get go and just started with a small retail store. And slowly just ran the retail store while simultaneously building out the the online presence of the business. And that’s what we just carried on doing and it grew from there.

Heather Mason  12:09

I’m thinking I have so many questions. Yeah, like, okay, who helped you with the website build out? Was that something that was, you know, you were knowledgeable about? Or did you have an expert help you?

Jeff Cayley  12:21

Yeah, I was relatively knowledgeable about it. I mean, not, not that much per se. I mean, I think, you know, I just did a lot of googling. I didn’t go to college. And so a lot of everything I know and learned about business and technology. And all of that just came from googling, but it was also like a passionate interest of mine. I really loved business. And I love the e commerce and I love the scalability of e commerce. So I just read and learned and dug into that stuff on my free time because I enjoyed it. And then so yeah, we started out I mean, years back, we started out actually building a Magento site. And that was a total disaster. Then eventually we switch over to Shopify, and there was a big debate in my head of like, Oh, do we do smart retailing or Shopify, and at that time, smarty tilling was like, light years behind. So I mean, they’re in a whole different category now. But yeah, so that’s why we ended up going with Shopify for the website. And then yeah, I mean, a lot of that stuff we did ourselves. And then we dug around and went through various different development firms to help us build the more complicated stuff. I ended up hiring one of my old roommates who worked at a company called BTO sports, which was the motocross industry had kind of, they’ve kind of like a decade or two ahead of the cycling industry, when it when it came to like being online. And he worked at a company BTO sports that that’s exactly what they did. They had a small motorcross retail store, but it was mostly online. So they had a website, and they sold all sorts of motocross gear, and parts and accessories and all that online. And so I pulled him and, you know, between him and I, we, we just hammered out the Shopify site and, and went away with it. So yeah, it took time and work. But yeah, just time work and googling and persistence. And that’s business.

Heather Mason  14:04

Your attitude is so like, spot on. So just because you weren’t familiar with something you didn’t know how to do, it didn’t mean that you stopped it means you pushed harder, and now you have a super successful business that is, you know, majority eecom. And then you’ve three brick and mortars. And Jeff, I know you’re so we’ve come light years, just in this past year with everything that’s happened, you know, with our global situation, into accepting more bicycle retailers as a whole now are more accepting of online sales and utilizing the platform a lot more to deliver, but you’re also on eBay and Amazon and I know what you say those two words in our industry, and it’s like, oh, my God, alright, freeze. But yeah, talk to me about the decision to do that and how it’s have been helpful in your retail environment and how maybe other people should consider or not consider it.

Jeff Cayley  14:51

Yeah. So that that’s a tough one. I, I am a I’m a unique in a unique position when it comes to that. So I i despise eBay and Amazon, I think they’re like they’re just annoying thorns on everyone’s side when it comes to the bicycle industry. And what I also like the least about them is that they allow, I don’t know how to classify these, but there’s a lot of bike shops that just selling even Amazon, they don’t have a proper website, they don’t have a proper retail store. And they’re really just doing price arbitrage on eBay and Amazon and it’s completely unhelpful for the industry as a whole from for us as being in the industry for the consumers. I really don’t like those shops, I think they’re just harmful to the industry in general. And, you know, for us, like our business, 13% of our revenue comes from eBay and Amazon. So it’s, there’s still a chunk there. We look at eBay and Amazon as basically acquisition channels. And I know no one from eBay, or Amazon will ever listen to this. But I look at that as like a way to steal customers and bring them to our website and bring them to our retail stores. And it’s like sell things on there and find a way to like slide a little card, which you’re not supposed to do says the Amazon policy. So I’m breaking the rules, Sumi, a slide a little card in there that says like, Hey, thanks for buying from us on eBay or Amazon, please head to our website, it’s a way better experience there, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so like we’re looking at it as an acquisition channel, it’s like a marketing channel. And that’s how I view eBay and Amazon, you can’t get any customer data from there. I mean, they’re just there. It’s all price focused. I mean, it’s just horrible. It’s It’s not good for the industry and, and shops that exclusively sell on eBay. And Amazon, in my opinion, are unsustainable and unhelpful for the industry. So that’s a small percentage of our online business is eBay and Amazon and I get I look at them as acquisition channels to take them to our website, because our website is where we can actually bring value and have videos and provide content to people and, and connect with them through email, and social and do like all these various other things that like create like a great holistic, valuable customer experience. So yeah, eBay and Amazon. I mean, that’s kind of my opinion there. And yeah, I’m not a, I’m not a big fan of third party marketplaces, and especially not the shops that exclusively sell there. And a lot of them like to try and like hide and say that, Oh, no, we have a website, but they don’t. And so I don’t know, anyways, that’s no shenanigans to talk about. But I love

Heather Mason  17:17

that answer. And I, you know, you have to be found, right? So another spot to interact with customers is another spot. It’s another opportunity to make those customers your customer. Yeah, life. So I thank you for that answer. Jeff, that’s spot on. But you just talked about your website, which is really what I want to dig into the content that’s on that website. It’s just kept me coming back. And when I first you know, heard about worldwide cyclery, I thought you were you know, in Europe or something I didn’t know, you know, I had no idea because the presence that you put across on your website, the power of your images, and your content is really super impactful. And I I have never personally seen it on myself. So I just really want to dig into it. And I stole some words right off your website that I jotted down in my notes that I want to ask you about. Yeah. Okay, so on that lead title, the head title of one of your web web pages, it says that you are redefining that worldwide cyclery is redefining what a bike shop can be. Can you summarize that for our listeners?

Jeff Cayley  18:20

Yeah, sure. So our About Us page. On the top it says our mission is simple redefine what a bike shop can be. And so that’s sort of a running mantra internally amongst our staff. And that that kind of it’s it’s a bit Frou Frou and vague, right? But I mean, the way we look at that is just better customer service, better company culture, better business model better everything. And it’s so it’s sort of a audacious statement to set the tone for what we do internally. And what we do as a company and want to project and we do want to sort of redefine what a bike shop can be in our eyes, that’s kind of what I described earlier is how we see the modern day bike shop of being this like, great mix of focused, retail environment, focused online catalog, like really capturing this holistic customer experience, really bringing a lot of value to our customers and to the industry as a whole without really any expectation, right? So I mean, that that goes back to the, you know, we’re cranking out blog articles constantly, and videos constantly around educational topics and product releases and how to do this, how to do that product reviews of this. So just, you know, comparisons, right? I mean, like in depth comparisons of every one of strands drive trends, like we do that and we weigh every single part and like help people decipher what’s going on. Because I think, you know, we and like we as in people listening to this podcast that are deep in the industry, we kind of forget how complicated all this stuff is, you know, and so for a new entrant to the industry like gx nx x 1x x like that doesn’t mean anything to anyone, right? It means something to us because we’ve just been inundated With those words for forever, but someone coming new into the industry, they have absolutely no clue why gx is less expensive than xx one. Like, why would that? So that’s the kind of stuff we try and always put our shoes in the, you know, put ourselves in the shoes of our customers and think like, what do we need to explain? What can what can we actually bring a value? Like, what do we know, as bike nerds that we could actually create a video on it and help people with? And so that’s what we’ve done over the years. And it’s it’s started out as like just a, you know, it’s like, it’s content marketing, right? It’s like, hey, let’s create something of great value that benefits people. And hopefully, you know, it’s it’s really is like a thankless job in a sense, because it’s just like, hopefully they enjoy it and then shop with us. We’re not forcing them to it’s not, we’re not charging for that content. They can watch it and then go buy it somewhere else. And that’s fine. That’s that. But it’s it’s more of just a hopeful thing. It’s like, yeah, just put the content and the help out there. And if it works, it works. And if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. But yeah, that’s that’s what we’ve done over the years and amassed a pretty large catalog of various content that hopefully has helped, you know, mountain bikers of all kinds learn more about the complicated mountain bike parts that we all deal with every day.

Heather Mason  21:11

Yeah, and I’m just thinking, as you were, as you were mentioning, that Jeff, that we do have all these new this past year, I mean, gyms were closed, and people were home, and they were looking for new new places. So you know, cycling just boomed and we have all these new people coming into our stores becoming cyclists, and they have no idea about the maintenance that a bike entails. Or even like, you know, how much tire pressure to have, you know, there’s so many unknowns. And I’m wondering, like, have you noticed that you’re like, if you have some basic how to is have you noticed this past year that they’re being viewed more often? Because we have these new cycles?

Jeff Cayley  21:46

Yeah, definitely. So I mean, I think, you know, even if you jump into Google Trends, and look at the data there, I mean, so many people, you know, if you just pop in terms, so many people have just been googling you just even the term bike shop, or how to lube a chain, or, you know, bicycle tire pressure. I mean, all of those search queries have just gone through the roof and 2020 because so many more people got bikes and already started riding more frequently and started working on their own bikes. And so yeah, all that stuff is has really gone through the roof in terms of content. So luckily, we’d spent the better part of the 10 years prior positioning ourselves with that. So when people did go to Google a lot of that stuff, you know, hopefully they found us, but yeah, that that certainly has has gone up because there’s a lot more people, you know, that are new to the sport and people that are just writing more frequently, which is, which is awesome.

Heather Mason  22:34

So your website says, you know, and I think you said that you employ the 40 of the Rattus individuals and you know, right on your website, you have other images and the way I’m hearing you talk, when, you know, when I asked you about your mission statement, and, you know, in a minute, we’re gonna get to the why the shop exists list, you keep referring to like, it’s not just you, it’s you and your team, which is so heartwarming to hear. And so, you know, I can’t wait to talk about that. Because there’s a lot of, you know, one of the topics that keeps coming up is how we attract people and how we keep our employees, right, yeah, especially with this extra hours everyone’s working. But okay, so you have this list on your website. So under that mission value statement on the page that I totally pirated the information from when I first met, you have this list, and it’s why the shop exists, and the list is exquisite. And for me, with this past year, all these new cyclists we keep talking about, it’s up to us now to keep them engaged and keep them active in our sport. And you know, we’ve got them the one bike now they need the you know, additional bike, it needs a hardtail to complement their full suspension, or, you know, so I want to talk about this list, because this list, I think, is the meat of where other retailers can learn, you know, you put yourself out there. So one of the things on the list is we are here to support people having fun on bicycles. So I asked you, Jeff, how are you doing this? How are you supporting people having fun? Can you give us some examples that maybe other retailers could use?

Jeff Cayley  23:57

Yeah, exactly. I mean, so that that’s our number one of why we exist, and just a little backstory on so we call them the seven why’s and it’s basically seven bullet point reasons of why our business exists, period. That’s, you know, external, of course, it’s right on our About Us page, but it’s also very much internal and any new staff that comes on as to memorize that and recite it in front of everyone else, and then they get 20 bucks once they recite it successfully. So that’s, that’s kind of it’s very important piece of the puzzle to like, who we are and why they every business should have some clear reasons of why they actually exist. And this i didn’t i didn’t just miraculously come up with this. This is from a book Simon Sinek start with why everyone’s probably seen him. He’s a pretty prolific author and speaker. But his book start with why really like ingrains this mentality of why businesses need to have a why or some why’s like they just need to be able to communicate clearly why they exist because it’s helpful for everyone helpful externally and internally. So that’s where this idea came from. And yeah, the Number one thing, you know, we’re here to support people having fun on bicycles. That’s, that’s our number one. Because that’s kind of like what we’re doing. I mean, anyone that owns a bike shop or operates a bike shop or works in the bike industry, like, that’s actually what you’re doing. We all ride bikes for fun. And I passionately love the fact that we’re in an industry that supports a good healthy, fun outdoor activity. And I think everyone in our team resonates with that. And just by being in business by doing the hard work that it takes to, you know, work with customers in the store, package up orders and ship things out. And, you know, deal with customer complaints are various different things like just operating our business is supporting people having fun on bikes. So that’s that’s kind of like the big main one for us.

Heather Mason  25:44

I yeah, and this thing, we always have to I try to get this out in my emails, which thank you for reading. But we always have to remember we wake up. And you know, we love to ride, I love to ride you love to ride, you know, people listening, I’m sure love to ride, we have to remember that we are all doing this, because we love to ride. And that’s our mission. And that’s what we need to do is get more people on bikes and remind them how much they love to ride. Yeah, I love the why. And if you if you’re listening, you don’t have a why if you don’t have a list of why as Jeff has seven, but if you don’t, you should sit down with a piece of paper. After you finish listening to this and make your list of wise, Jeff, you say we are here because we know how to do bike shop better than it’s ever been done before. This is a huge statement.

Jeff Cayley  26:28

Yeah, it’s, it’s we’re here, because we know we can do bike shop for a slight change there just to make it clear. Yeah, so that that one’s there. I mean, it’s, it’s again, it’s it’s a bit of a competitive tactic to like, I think it sets the tone for what we want to do internally, we certainly do not operate a quote unquote typical bike shop by any means. What we’re doing is quite unique and different. And we try to focus on larger picture and we try to solve a lot of the common the common complaints that sort of everyone has about bike shops in general, that that sort of, you know, I walked into a bike shop, and I felt very much like an outcast, or unwelcomed, or I rolled my, my comments all in there, which is a consumer drag bike brand. And everyone there kind of like was rude to me, because it wasn’t the brand that they carry. So like we’re trying to crush those problems, we’re trying to add a level of humor and humility and kindness to the whole shopping experience for everyone that shops with us, whether that’s online or in store. And so to us, that’s, you know, I think, you know, bike shops, quote, unquote, in general have these stigmas, and we’re trying to crush those. And that’s kind of what that statements about. It’s like, setting the tone internally that we know we can do bike shop better than it’s been done before. And, and we all know collectively what those stigmas are, and let’s make sure we never fall into those traps. And let’s make sure we were working hard to, you know, be a way better business that just leaves people walking out the doors or, you know, clicking that Checkout button with a smile on their face and like feeling really good about their purchase and having a good customer experience, like holistically. So yeah, that’s kind of what that one’s there for as well.

Heather Mason  28:12

So Jeff, I’m thinking, Okay, so we all have those best customers, you know, so we, you know, that come into our shop all the time, they’re our friends, they’ve bought one or two or three bikes from us in the past, right? And now, maybe they found something online, right? And you don’t think that like they’re not afraid to bring that bike into you to have you assemble it? Right? Like, think about it, like, you know, so what you’re saying is because we know we can do by shot better, because we should we should all do what we do better and and think of our customers that are now nervous, maybe your best customers nervous to come to you because he bought something online, we’re better than that we can do better than that we can, you know, so I’m just thinking in those terms. And, you know, we have to welcome everyone and we have to be better.

Jeff Cayley  28:58

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I tried to really set that tone amongst our whole team and always keep it like that because, you know, I when I was a teenager worked for a shop that the owner would purposefully guilt trip people if they would come in with stuff that wasn’t bought there. And that would just make my blood boil. I just I just thought it was disrespectful, unnecessary and a bad business strategy in every sense of the word. So I just never wanted to be like that. And again, you know, I just think that all of that stuff I don’t I don’t understand why the stigma there. I mean, people buy things online people buy things from other people like it’s a very rules back to that like scarcity versus abundance mentality. And I think you know, I’ve always tried to implement into our shop and our staff like we have the abundance mentality, it does not matter where people bought it. It does not matter what brand it is like their riders, their friends, like let’s help them let’s do right by them and let’s run a good business and be respectful to everyone and absolutely does not matter where you bought anything or whatever. And Funny enough, you know, we’ve been asked the question multiple times, you know, people have asked us like, hey, do you do you feel like people abuse and use all of your content and then go by elsewhere? And I say, yeah, of course I do. I don’t care. Like, I’m not like, I’m not, we’re not making content with this, you know, I, we made this so you’re gonna buy with us now? It’s not, it’s not it’s not like that we’re just, we’re just doing the right thing and making content and if people like it, and they think their school, they want to shop with us, that’s great. And wanna shop somewhere else? That’s fine. Like, yeah, I don’t know, I just don’t think there shouldn’t be any sort of bad stigmas, or, I don’t know, annoyances around those topics. So yeah, that’s, that’s kind of where some of that’s come from.

Heather Mason  30:44

It’s bigger than that. Right. And that goes to your next one of your why’s, which is we are here to impress customers and impress ourselves. And I think we just like wrap that up, right? Like, you’re just being an awesome human and, and, you know, asking the best of your customers too, and giving them stuff that impresses, I mean, look at the content on your website, there’s so much there, I could spend like Hours, I just I could spend days like been one binge watching

NBDA   31:07

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Heather Mason  31:44

Um, this one is one I’d like you to dive into on your wise, we are here to challenge the status quo of the industry. So I actually like Google’s status quo, just so I have the definition. Correct. And I’m challenging the existing state. So you’re elevating it right. So give me a little bit of a thinking behind this one.

Jeff Cayley  32:03

Yeah. So I mean, that kind of rolls back to, you know, what I was just mentioning. So the status quo would be those, you know, those original stigmas of people worried about bringing in something to their local bike shop that they bought online. Those things of feeling, you know, of almost being talked down to or feel like the people when they walk into a store or talk to someone online, they feel like the persons being derogatory towards them, because they’re not as knowledgeable and they’re like, feeling like, they should be more knowledgeable. I mean, so all of those things. So we want to, we want to challenge that and just do that better. And what people expect, which is for us, a lot of It does roll back down to customer support. It’s it’s our ability to thoroughly and accurately reply to emails. And if you ask us three questions in an email, we reply to all three questions, not just one, you know, little things like that, that that might seem commonplace, but they’re really not. And there’s, there’s really stuff that, you know, we’re doing from a customer support perspective, that is, is pretty basic, in my opinion, when it’s again, it’s just like, getting back to people within 24 hours actually answering the phone, having someone on the phone who actually knows what they’re talking about, who has a desire to see through what your question is, and help you find a solution no matter what, those are the things that we want to we want to make sure we’re doing right. And, and I think the industry, I think the industry is doing a way better job at it. Now, maybe not everyone, but you know, especially when we started the store in 2011. I mean, the online shopping experience, like it definitely existed, there were plenty of online, big online retailers back in 2011, that were doing just fine in the bike industry, but they had horrendous customer support, they didn’t reply to emails on time, they’re like, they’re just a mess. And that, to me, that level of terrible customers, online customer support was an opportunity. And then you’ve seen companies, you know, for example, if you remember, price point, price point was a huge online retailer that was pretty, pretty well known in the in the mountain bike and just everywhere, just cycling in general. And now they’re gone. Because they didn’t do any of that they focused on price. They didn’t focus on service. And it’s kind of like a spinning example of you know, why you have to focus why your business has to be customer centric, and that a customer centric business is not the status quo right now. So that’s what we’re trying to push into.

Heather Mason  34:29

Do you think it’s easier to do that with it with a mix of online and brick and mortar like you feel like a shop owner with just a brick and mortar with online focus, but not as heavy as you are? could do that could make a customer centric business?

Jeff Cayley  34:43

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I don’t think no matter what you’re doing, what business you’re doing, you could make a customer centric business. I mean, the reality is people are very like, everyone is very digital these days. So you do need to be accessible through various communication methods that people like so you can’t really call yourself customer centric, if you only take phone calls and you don’t reply to emails, like that’s not people use email so, and your customers use email, and if they want to communicate with you through email, you better learn how to do that. So there’s things like that and people want to DM me on Instagram or Facebook and, you know, and or call you or email you or or live chat us. I mean, there’s, there’s various communication methods that you just have to do. Because your customers prefer them. And so customer centric is really like thinking about what are your customer preferences, and then making sure that you’re you’re standing up to those, and if there’s a lot of customers that have a preference of buying online or buying in store, or both, or communicating via various methods, like you need to actually stand up to those because those are your customer preferences and a customer centric business looks for those customer preferences and make sure that they’re standing tall there.

Heather Mason  35:50

So yeah. How are we gauging those? Jeff? So are we constantly asking customers how they found you what the best way that they prefer communication is like, how are we knowing what their preferences are?

Jeff Cayley  36:01

Yeah, I think so we do on our Checkout, for example, we’re asking people how they found us. But, you know, for us, it’s I don’t think it’s that it’s not, it’s not elusive thing, like people use social media, people use email and phone calls and live chat, it’s not.

Heather Mason  36:20

Right, right, get yourself set up. And if you don’t know how to do it, hire someone to do it for you.

Jeff Cayley  36:25

Yeah. And, and just it’s, it also goes back to just good organization, you know, like, if you’re gonna, if your business is growing, and you’re, it’s like one or two people using Gmail, you know, that’s not sustainable for very long, then you’re going to need something like Zendesk or help scout or like an actual customer support management tool, where you can have multiple agents, you know, so you have to, you have to think of those things. And it makes sure it’s scalable, but it’s, you know, it’s kind of common sense stuff, somebody sends you an email, they don’t expect you to lose it, they expect you to thoroughly answer it and answer it within a timely manner. That’s kind of simple. The execution is not always simple, because sometimes that’s hard. But it’s you know, it’s it’s not that complicated to know sort of what customers want these days and how they want to talk to you.

Heather Mason  37:09

Yeah, it’s not an it’s not just enough to throw up an online store and think think now you’re in the online business. definitely invest in it and, and make sure you’re paying attention to when your contact when your customers are engaging with you. So something totally unique about your site is all the content you put out. And it’s it’s constantly constantly updated with new blogs, new videos, so much that I have a friend who told me that you are his media source like he comes to you for like, what’s happening in technology. Do you hear this often do you have like, I mean, you must have followers and you can see that right?

Jeff Cayley  37:46

Yeah, definitely. So I mean, we we now are, we’re we’re very much so competitive in the top five mountain bike media outlets across North America. And I think really the world I mean, when you look at our, when you compare us to, you know, even bike radar, MTB, our vital MTB pink bike, we’re ahead of significantly ahead of many of them when it comes to followers and engagement on various platforms like YouTube and email list size and Instagram engagement and all those various metrics. So we’re, and that was intentional. You know, about five years ago, I’d really seen this pretty big gap that I didn’t really know why it existed. But there was, you know, there was media outlets. Pink bike, for example, is the biggest one in the mountain bike world, right? And then there was retailers, and there’s just like, massive gap, like pink bike doesn’t sell anything. Retailers don’t talk about anything. And I just didn’t understand why that existed like that. Because retailers, one people are on pinkbike already. So like your target market is there, like they want to see that stuff. But they can’t buy it there. And then there’s all these retailers. And these retailers have all this data, like what are people buying, what’s breaking what’s getting warrantied a lot, what fits what I mean, retailers have all of this treasure trove of data. And and then like, they’re not sharing it with immediately, like there’s this huge separation between the two. And I really just thought we should just bridge that gap. The way to bridge that gap is to be a world class retailer, and then also be a world class media outlet. And obviously, our focus is mountain bikes. So that’s what we did. And we’re the only people that have done that. So there’s no other actual bicycle shop that has the media presence we do. And then that was very intentional, because I just thought we could just bridge that gap, like we can create content, just as good as pink bike in just a timely manner. And then we can also sell it with a great customer experience. So why don’t we do that? So that’s what we did. And that was just a unique gap that we sort of saw in the industry and thought on that we could just achieve by just kind of closing that gap and creating great media content. And and that is that is complicated. That’s not something that just happened overnight. You know, it was it was intentional, and it took years to produce and now we have, you know, seven staff dedicated to literally just media content. I mean they’re talking to brands all day they’re writing articles. They’re shooting in editing videos and photos and like that’s, you know, our our business very much so looks like this hodgepodge of like a large, you know, mountain bike ecommerce retailer, brick and mortar store, customer support staff and like a whole media outlet, it’s all like wrapped up into our, into our three shops. So it’s a very different org chart than you might imagine in your in your typical bicycle store.

Heather Mason  40:25

It’s so dynamic, and there’s so many moving pieces, and I want to get into the people, you know, the 40, rat employees and, and right now the conversation that comes up often is how do we find good people? And then once we have them, how do we keep them? So talk to me about how you’re finding these amazing people for your team? And then how you’re keeping them? You know, I can see that you look like, you know, from what I see online, it looks like you’re an awesome person to work for. So

Jeff Cayley  40:50

yeah, I mean, so. So that’s an interesting piece right there, right? Because what you said is like what you see online, and I think that’s where a lot of businesses small businesses drop the ball is they don’t really have a brand. People don’t really know what it’s like to work there. Because they don’t know who the managers are, who the CEO is, like what that business stands for. They don’t know any of that, because businesses don’t really make that transparent. And they don’t really put themselves out there like that. And I think that’s a major issue to bring talent in. I mean, I’ll be totally honest with you, when we want to hire, we’re always completely and utterly confident we can just pluck people from other bike shops nearby or other industry. Businesses nearby. I mean, because everyone wants to work here. And and that’s, you know, we sit on that advantage because people know us like our brand is very focused on mountain bikes, it’s full of humor. It’s full of this, like very cool and interesting balance of fun and focus, where it’s like, wow, this is an extremely well established, well run very well reviewed business that’s loved by customers that’s growing and in doing well, and all that data is there. But yet, there is humor and love for bikes and passion for bikes and this like lifestyle that I can tangibly feel through their content and through their videos and through their Instagram. All of that’s out there. So that makes people so attracted to us because they see it right. It’s like, it’s they actually can see something whereas a lot of businesses you look at it, like you’d look at their Instagram or their website, and you can’t really get a feel for who are they? Are they funny? Do they love bikes? Do they love road bikes? gravel bikes? Not like they don’t, you don’t really know. So like, if you if you look at your own business to the eyes of someone who has no idea what your business is, like, how are they judging you? Are they do they think you’re funny? If so, how and why? Or do they have no idea? If you’re funny? Do they think you take political stances? Yes or no? You know, they just don’t know anything about you. Because it’s not out there. If they hit your website, like, what’s your About Us page? Is it a? Is it a lame paragraph? Does it even exist? Does it really clearly show why you exist, and what’s so good about working there, I mean, there’s all these various things. But for us, it’s that like, really holistic brand building, it’s allowing people customers alike and potential prospective employees, to for them to know who we are, what we stand for, what we do, what this work environments, like, and just putting all of that out there. And that takes time and intentional effort. But it does all start with, you know, a great About Us page. So a prospective employee can look at your About Us page and and learn who who’s there, you know, who is this? Who is the owner? I want to know who he is, why did he start the shop? Like what’s, you know, they they’re curious about that stuff. So yeah, those those things matter. And then when it comes to the retention piece, you know, there really is that, you know, mission, vision and values portion of it, that if people feel like they’re working for a business that’s, you know, chasing a larger mission, that has sound values that resonate with them, and they’re treated and respected. Well, you know, they likely have no reason to leave, and they’re very happy and want to stay there, and they’re glad they found that career path. You know, and vice versa, if they get into a business and they you know, soon realize that, you know, the values don’t match their personal values, and they didn’t know that prior, I mean, that’s going to be a huge issue, you’re never gonna retain an employee that just has a totally different value set than your business exemplifies, you know, or if they feel disrespected, I mean, all those various reasons, too. So there’s a lot of intentional effort internally on just focusing on your own culture and making sure that people that are working for you know, that they’re respected and cared for, and listened to. So yeah, I mean, that that takes time and diligent effort, for sure. But a lot of it is is just putting it into words and putting it into, you know, very clear, clear way for you to understand it, your staff to understand it, prospective employees to understand it. And then the icing on the cake is that when consumers if they care and they want to dig into your business, if they see it and they’re like, wow, I resonate with this business. I want to shop with them. You know, it’s very brand Building asks sort of mentality and Patagonia sort of the pinnacle everyone brings up, right. It’s like people know what Patagonia stands for. They know Patagonia has political views. I know Patagonia’s views on global, you know, environmentalism. And they that’s why they resonate with that, why would they do or they don’t resonate with that brand, right. So that’s just a good example of it. But it’s it can be can definitely be done with a, you know, bike shop of any size as well just take some intentional effort.

Heather Mason  45:23

Yeah, we talk often about, you know, making that About Us page, you know, fine tuning that putting pictures of your staff, you know, what it would be like to work for you, and it doesn’t always, it doesn’t also, or just, it’s not just for future employees, but it’s also for your consumers as well. Yeah, you have such a big team, they’re spread out all over, Jeff. So how are you communicating with every one? And do you have big meetings? virtually? Or, you know, what’s your role as far as your direct communication with the employees?

Jeff Cayley  45:51

Yeah, so we, you know, pre COVID, we tried to fly people around more, you know, depending on their role on the company, our location, so I’m originally from Southern California, and that’s where we opened up the first shop. And then I’m sure people have noticed already, but the reason we’re in Nevada in Pennsylvania is because we’re next door neighbors with kvp. So we can ship things out quicker, because we want to be close to the distribution network. That’s not uncommon for any econ business, to be close to their distributors, and everyone knows kvp. That’s listening very likely. So. So yeah, that’s why we’re there. And so yeah, I mean, we definitely tried to do you know, we put a lot of effort into moving staff around between the shops to get to know each other. We do various things internally to get people to learn who they are. And then it’s it is compartmentalised. Right, I mean, the the customer support team, you know, those are the people that are working with each other all day, the logistics team are talking to each other all day. So we, we and we’re still working on that it’s, it’s that dynamic has changed a lot. Because of COVID, right? I mean, pre COVID, we were able to have people just travel more, and that was really convenient. Now, obviously, that’s not really possible. So, so we’re doing different things like we’re just recently starting to do this thing called a connected session, actually, a friend of mine puts it on. And he’s been doing it with various other companies and a ton of different industries, where he kind of hosts this, this zoom call, and he used to do it per department, right. So like, our media department just did one and our customer support team has one coming up. So it’s a zoom call, with a, you know, whole number of people. And there’s various things that are, it’s hard to say, I mean, it’s various things that help you become more connected to your co workers in a virtual environment. So it’s just like tailored questions that people get the answer and the way for people to get to know each other in a different manner. Yeah, so we’re still like working on all of those things. And that is hard. You know, I mean, that’s, there’s always going to be a level of friction there when you have people that work with each other that are in different environments all the time. So I can’t say we’re, we’re experts on that one just yet, but we’re working at it.

Heather Mason  47:59

Yeah, I’m just thinking, you know, it’s such a thing for for listeners who do have staff that are, you know, coming to a single location, often, it’s important not just to focus on what we do as far as business practices and sales tips, but to focus on building this sense of trust and, and appreciating each person’s unique self and building up a team and making sure your doors open for people who want to bring you ideas, you know, and yeah, cultivate a long term career with you. And it sounds like you’re doing that, Jeff.

Jeff Cayley  48:28

Yeah, we’re trying. So yeah, what you just described as kind of like the definition of psychological safety, right? That’s like a really big buzzword right now in the business world, because that’s what that’s what everyone sort of desires is the psychological safety and their work environment, they want to feel like the people they’re around and work for and work with, they feel like they can trust them, and they know them, and they equally know each other. And there’s just a level of trust and good, proper healthy communication there. That makes them feel comfortable going there day in and day out. And like what you just described is that, you know that and that’s what we’re, we’re always trying to trying to cultivate that internally, because we do want people to really feel comfortable and safe and trusted and happy in their work environment. And that’s that’s a never ending target that you’re always working at that.

Heather Mason  49:15

Jeff, I feel like you want them fit too, because I’m on your website, and you have this program. And I don’t know if you created this, but I want to know, it’s called miles for Nika. And from what I gained from what I saw online, it’s that for every mile that your employees pedal, you’re donating to Nika. Correct. Is this I feel like this is tell us about this because I want more shops to do it.

49:38

Yeah.

Jeff Cayley  49:40

Yeah, it’s pretty cool. Oh, I’m not we can’t with that idea. So we started supporting Nika pretty heavily. Well, we’ve always supported Nika, just just not super heavily, but we sponsored one race, you know, a few years back and I had so much fun there and really saw so much value in what they’re doing. And then And then last Last year, we kind of flipped the whole Black Friday Cyber Monday thing on its head because it was just seemed like a good year to just not do a sale but to do a more of a fundraiser. So that’s what we did. So we actually raised prices on everything on our website by $5. And then everything that’s sold, we donated the time we donated $10 per order or per item, actually, to Nika, we ended up raising almost $14,000 for Nikah. So that was really cool. And

Heather Mason  50:28

that so you didn’t discount you actually raised prices and donated. Thank you, Jeff.

Jeff Cayley  50:34

So yeah, that that was a fun project. And we really enjoyed that. And we were also just really impressed by our support from our audience and customers on how much they enjoyed that too. And we were also wildly impressed at how many people didn’t know Nika was I think, we ran a poll on Instagram and got 16,000 votes and 63% of them didn’t know who Nika was. So there’s still a pretty big faction of mountain bikers that just don’t even know what Nika is. I mean, if you don’t have kids, you’re not in the industry. I don’t guess I don’t really know why you would know about it. But so it was really cool to just get more eyeballs on it and raise a bunch of money for Nika. And then, yeah, earlier this year, we were thinking of other various ways we could support Nika, and then other ways. We could incentivize our own staff to ride bikes more. So that’s kind of where the the staff miles for Nikah thing came up with, and it’s what we do. So ours, like, I’ll just read them off right here. So it’s we donate. So it’s an internal Strava group of our own staff. It’s a private Strava group, so we can track it. Yes, it’s on the honor system. But again, it’s it’s your own staff. So if you’re worried about people lying on Strava, and you’re on staff, you have bigger problems. So So basically, it’s our internal private Strava group for our staff. We’ll donate $1 tonight for every mile written miles one to 150 cents for every mile written for miles, one on one 999. And then 25 cents for every mile written 1000 plus. And we make the donation we tally everything up each quarter. And this is all new. So we just finished q1. So q1, the staff rode 6163 miles, and we donated 3899. So that’s what we just did for q1 and then yeah, so we’ll tally it up again for q2. And it’s been it’s been really fun, because it’s it literally allows every one of our staff to hop on their bike and be like, I’m donating tonight, just to ride my bike. So yeah, it’s been a cool thing to do. And, yeah, just really fun. And we, of course, told Nick about it. And they will actually, I don’t even know if we’d mentioned it tonight. But we just sent that donation and and I was like, I’ll just tell him later, I’ll get around to sending them an email. But then they notice a donation. They’re like, Oh, my God, what is this? This is awesome. I thought it was a cool and fun idea to incentivize our staff to ride more and just like feel purposeful when they’re riding like they’re just riding. It’s ironically enough, are some of our staff started riding road and gravel more just so they could pump out more miles than they could on the mountain bike. I was like, I’m all for it. I guess that’s all so

Heather Mason  53:07

many good things about this program it not only do you get more engaged, like more happier staff members, right? Because we all know when we’re riding our bikes, we’re more engaged, our brains are thinking better, we’re happier, but you’re donating tonight, you’re doing a tremendous thing. It’s right on your website worldwide. cyclery.com. It’s in the bottom left hand for our listeners who are looking to learn more about what they’re doing. I challenge everyone to think creatively and do something unique and add their own environment to encourage their staff to get out and ride and what a great way to give back to Nika. But touching on the Instagram poll you did and how you know many people don’t even know Nika exists. It makes me think we only know what we know. Right? Like, yeah, another another nugget there for our listeners is we have to keep remembering that it’s up to us to educate, engage and create cyclists and share what we know many cyclists, many future cyclists, you know, typically our old customer would come into the shop because they were a cyclist or their friend were and or their friend was and now we’re having these new people come into shops who have no idea about cycling, they just know that they want to ride a bike because everyone’s talking about it or they read an article about it. So it’s up to us to really educate them and teach them because they don’t know. So this is a great thing Jeff you’re doing an amazing thing here. Okay, so back to Econ, your your shops really setting you know, new concept and your way of thinking you’re setting the bar super high. Any tips for listeners who maybe want to try to expand their online presence?

Jeff Cayley  54:40

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I think it’s something you got to do. Having a sort of multi channel business, if you’re already brick and mortar be online as well. It’s just a valuable thing to do for your customer base. I would say the thing to do is to go slow walk before you run. be intentional with it sort of know what you want to offer on there and also just know what you’re getting into. Don’t Don’t dabble. I think that’s where you can shoot yourself in the foot as food just like pop up a site and orders may or may not roll in and emails might come in and things may or may not ship out because you lost which orders were fulfilled and which ones weren’t. I mean, it’s it’s a, it’s a whole different business right in the in the sense that it’s you got to really focus on it and be intentional with it. So if you’re going to do it, there needs to be someone who’s very invested in making sure it’s maintained and looking good. And the product descriptions are correct. And the pricing is correct, because that’s a very important thing these days, with all the brands that have Matt policies when it comes to pricing, and then just making sure that you have yourself properly set up to succeed, you know, because if you go into it with a with someone dedicated to it that knows, that knows, like, Hey, we’re getting an email volume will read another customer support person to help you know, his person emails at all, I’ve just placed this but I need to cancel my order, oh, can you ship this to here and this to their, you know, like, you know, what fits this? There’s is a lot of questions. I mean, it’s it’s a whole complicated ballgame to do it. So, yeah, just go into it cautiously and slowly and make sure you know what you’re getting into, because that’s, that’s what’s going to set you up for success. Yeah, it’s just, it’s just being realistic on the expectations of sort of knowing how much it entails. Because it entails a lot to do it right. You know, like, you can’t just go on there and not allow people to email you or not allow people to call you I mean, you need you need to need to offer the right, you know, avenues for people to contact you and, you know, all of that sort of stuff manage that side of the e commerce business. So yeah, I think that’s that’s kind of what I would offer there.

Heather Mason  56:44

So think it through, don’t go in, you know, willy nilly, definitely invest yourself get some get a team together, and have a strategy and plan for long term and, and what you said about making sure with your suppliers and vendors that you’re following their pricing policy, and you know what you can ship out, there’s so many little pieces to touch on that are important here.

Jeff Cayley  57:05

Yeah, and that’s why it’s good. I think just like walk before you run, you know, I mean, in that means that if you have if you’re using something like smarty tailing, or you have an opportunity to put a lot of products up there, be careful. Just put some products up there slowly and slowly, add more and, and learn the business, and be cautious with it. And just make sure you know, it really is that whole walk before you run type of thing, because it can get overwhelming pretty quick. And if it gets overwhelming and your customer experience deteriorates, then it’s probably never gonna work and never go anywhere and end up just being a headache for you. So yeah, that whole walk before you run mentality, I think is a pretty important one. When it comes to the e commerce business.

Heather Mason  57:45

We get lots of individuals who are looking to get into the bike business now, you know, this past year, they’re seeing it to be Oh, it’s must be lucrative. I should start an online store, I should start a brick and mortar location. And I know I actually recently gave you an invitation I pointed someone your way. Thank you for nothing. any insights or tips for someone who’s thinking about getting into our industry?

Jeff Cayley  58:09

Well, I I’ll give you the honest answer, which which you may not like? I don’t I don’t really think it’s that great of an industry. I think that the margins are consistently getting squeezed. I think brands are selling more Consumer Direct constantly. And I think being a retailer in general in the bicycle industry, brick and mortar and online is it’s it’s becoming a worse and worse business to be in. as the years go on. I probably hate me for saying that. Sorry. But that’s that’s just how I feel. I think the the financially, it’s just more and more of a challenge to figure out how to properly make money. It’s becoming much more like the restaurant industry where it’s just, you know, it’s becoming more of that, yeah, best way to make a million dollars is to start with 2 million. It’s it’s becoming more of that as the years go on. And we see that ourselves. And we actually, recently about a year and a half ago bought the apparel brand kettle mountain from gvp. Because kimep run like a high end mountain bike apparel brand and are like, oh, we’re not we’re not going to do this anymore, because it didn’t work out for us. And we’d have to take a consumer drag, and we’re not going to do that. So we’re just gonna shut it down. And we said, well, can we take it? So we’re we’re diversifying and putting a lot more of our intentional focus and actually building a, you know, an outdoor adventure apparel brand that is going to be Consumer Direct, because we just see that as a larger industry that has healthier margins and more control vertically because you’re controlling your supply chain more so and you’re controlling your retail price and you’re controlling your costs a lot better. Whereas the retail on the bicycle world, you really can’t control your retail price and you can’t control your cost and it’s just, they’re just getting squeezed constantly. And I think it’s I think it’s a tough business. All businesses are tough, but I think it’s becoming increasingly harder than it used to be to actually eke out a profit on the bottom line each month, as As a bicycle retailer, so I would just heed caution on that one to anybody and to actually do some serious financial research and understanding the types of margins you’re looking at and what your margins look like versus your operating expenses and, and understand, you know, this business model, like any other business model, but it’s, I think it’s a tough one. And I think it’s getting more and more challenging to, to stay profitable in it.

Heather Mason  1:00:24

Yeah, no, I appreciate your honesty. And this is a conversation that we have, you know, in our PTA groups at the NBDA. And, you know, often that we are in a business where the margins are, you know, not great, and our operating expenses are there and staffing, staffing expenses are there and right now, we have to look at every single piece and we might be able to make a couple percent, you know, so it’s really a hard industry and I appreciate your honesty. And, you know, if you’re looking to get into it, like, like you said, work with a professional or have someone really helped you look at the numbers to make sure it makes sense. Okay, I’m gonna have to lighten things up a little bit.

Jeff Cayley  1:01:01

Sorry, I know that. That’s kind of like a slightly pessimistic mentality on it. But I don’t know, I would just rather be honest on the on the topic than I couldn’t tell a lie on that one. I it’s Yeah. I mean,

Heather Mason  1:01:13

it’s evident, like, you know, see, we’re all working so hard right to keep these new cyclists engaged to better our content offering to our customers where we’re trying to get every little bit like what you said, you’re expanding into something new now with adventure gear, like you’re just definitely pivoting as we move forward. Yeah. Okay. Talk to me about this. Ask Jeff. Anything, you have a YouTube playlist?

Jeff Cayley  1:01:36

We do. Yeah. So so we were very active on YouTube put a ton of content out there. That’s where all of our videos go. And yeah, one of the which was, which came up by just a popular demand. What was an Ask Jeff, anything video series, because a lot of people once I started presenting a lot of the videos in the early years, a lot of people wanted to just ask me direct questions, whether it was bicycle industry questions or technical bicycle questions. They just wanted my my opinion on things. And they were just curious, because I do get I’m a rare character. I mean, I’m 31. And I’ve been running a bike shop for 10 years, which is kind of an odd age to be doing that. So. And I also am a very outspoken goofball on the internet. So a lot of people watch YouTube videos, and they’re like, how is this student running a business? He’s seemingly out of his mind, you know? So So I yeah, we mix in a lot of comedic goofy stuff in our in our channel. So yeah, people were just kind of curious to like, ask me various random questions. And that’s what we started. So so we do it. I mean, I try to do it every four to six weeks, but we’ll put out you know, you know, what questions you have, and and we sift through, I mean, we usually get about close to two to 3000 questions each time. And then I try to sift through down to like, the, my favorite 20 or so and then I answer those in a YouTube video. And yeah, usually have a whiskey or something as I sip on while I answer the questions. But it’s been pretty fun. So that’s become a playlist on there. And yeah, it’s a good. I mean, I personally like answering the business questions more because all like the technical bike nerd stuff, I don’t know, I, I talk about it too often. I like answering more business related questions, or ones that I just think are funny. So I usually pick those. But yeah, so that’s, that is a playlist on our YouTube channel and a video we try to put out every, you know, four to six weeks, which is, which is pretty fun. And yeah, I usually try to do bike industry stuff. I mean, I’m talking to the consumers, right? I mean, and that’s why we’re making videos for is just kind of those average mountain bikers out there that are either getting into the sport or been into the sport and love the sport and just ride mountain bikes. So yeah, that’s, that’s kind of the majority of the questions that come in there. And sort of how I answered them as if I’m speaking to that audience, because that’s who watches our YouTube channel.

Heather Mason  1:03:48

This is definitely doing the bicycle industry, like it’s never been done, you’re putting yourself front and center in the hot seat as the owner, and people love to buy from people that they know and that they trust. And by accepting these 1000s of questions, and you know, sipping a whiskey with, you know, making yourself real, and and being, you know, just very out there and approachable. It’s definitely setting the bar really high. And it’s a great, you’re a great role model. In that regard. I challenge our listeners or any bike shop owner, why not? Why not just put yourself out there and talk about why you started the shop or Yeah, let people throw you any questions. You don’t have to. Even if you’re not good at thinking on your own, just let people ask you the questions, right. So I’m gonna have to watch and I’m gonna submit some questions for the next one. Oh,

Jeff Cayley  1:04:33

yeah. No, it has been fun. I mean, I’m definitely just a huge proponent that businesses need to be sort of more personal, especially a small business because realistically, you know, we have small business, everyone, a lot of people listening have small business. One of our only advantages as a small business owner is to really connect with your community and your audience and your niche and be yourself and show them that you know, the CEOs have larger companies are not doing that. And they’re not interested in that. And they probably can’t. And they have PR reasons. And then they have like legal reasons. And they have to read from a script. And it’s like, now we’re in the bike industry, like you can just get on YouTube or Instagram Live and drink a beer, and it had some random questions and like, it’s fine. And that’s, that’s why you’re in a lifestyle industry. And we’re not selling insurance or, you know, selling stocks, like we’re in the bike industry, because it’s fun and casual, and we enjoy that lifestyle. So I’m definitely a fan of, you know, I want customers to know, you know, who I am as the owner, who our staff is, I mean, that’s, that’s something I think it’s one of our advantages to really show off because realistically, especially in the bicycle, retail world, as well. We’ve kind of sell commodities, I mean, everything we sell everyone else can sell to right. So what makes us any different? So, you know, that is? Well, the only thing that is different is like every individual is actually unique. So if you can if you can express that, and people resonate with that. Yeah, that’s one of like, the advantages that I think everyone should be taken control of since as a business, that’s, you know, there’s already a lot of product out there. And no matter what you do, you probably got a really fierce competitor. But they’re not you and you’re not them. So that’s one of the things everyone has that’s unique to them. They should they should leverage.

Heather Mason  1:06:11

Yeah, now I got goosebumps. Thanks. You’re ready. Cool. Alright, so we just launched a redesign of America’s best bike shop program. It’s called the bicycle retailer excellence awards. And new this year, we’re bringing in a part where bicycle shop owners such as yourself can engage your community, and people can actually vote for your shop. And there’s different sections. So there’s online, you know, mobile bike shop with cafe pretty cool. But I’m trying to I end all my podcasts by asking the guests if I, you know, put the term out there. Bicycle retail excellence. What does that mean to you? And I’d like to get your thoughts. What does that mean, excellence in bicycle retail?

Jeff Cayley  1:06:55

Yeah, I mean, I would say we’re trying our best to do that through the various ways. I’ve told most all of them on this podcast in the last hour. But yeah, to me, I think it does mean, I think it means customer centric, I think it means modern, I think there’s a lot of great bike shops out there that are well intentioned, but they’re, they’re still a bit behind the times when it comes to their technology, and the way they communicate with customers is maybe a little dated. So yeah, I think it’s I think it’s customer centric. I think it’s attention to detail, I think it’s making sure you’re staying modern. And also making sure you’re you’re doing your best to like bring true value to the industry in various different ways, whether that’s educational content, or giving back or like really supporting your community in a unique way. Yeah, transparency, I mean, I think all of those things are will really help, you know, because because at the end of the day, anybody wherever they are on their path of you know, being a cyclist for 20 years, or just getting into the sport, if they go into a shop, and they feel respected and treated well, and like the people there want to be friends with them, and like they want to be friends with them. That’s going to make them want to continue riding bikes and realize that like, wow, this is not just an industry. And it’s not just a thing with two wheels. But this is kind of a lifestyle and the people that are in it, smile a lot. And they’re nice to me. And I want to be hanging out with those people and riding bikes with those people. And like if we can get our industry to sort of as a whole have that brand of like, hey, the people who ride bikes are fun. People who ride bikes are nice, respectful, cool people that have a good time and enjoy the outdoors and enjoy the outdoors in a healthy fun manner. I think if like the cycling industry in general can sort of push that and let people know that I think we would have, you know, way better odds of more people joining the industry. And yeah, so I think that’s cool. But it turns out also you could just have a pandemic, and that makes more people ride bikes, too. So who knew?

Heather Mason  1:08:59

I love your description of excellence in bicycle retailer. And it means that we’re getting more people into our sport more people into our work environments, and just embracing this culture and helping people along in their cycling journey in which who knows, like I went to culinary school, and here I am, because I found cycling, so I never know. Right? Um, Jeff, you are just an amazing human. And I want to apologize for the way we met. But I am so excited that you ended up on the podcast tonight. Thank you for changing art industry for the better. You’re definitely setting the bar and setting the standard and thank you for your contribution. Yeah, well,

Jeff Cayley  1:09:36

thank you so much for all the kind words you’re making me blush.

Heather Mason  1:09:40

So will you share your contact information if anyone has any questions or just what do you think had to say or? Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff Cayley  1:09:47

I mean, I usually steer people to just send me a direct message on Instagram just at Jeff Keighley jF FCA y le y. You’re also welcome to email me, Jeff Keighley at worldwide cyclery dot com. Yeah, I mean, I’m always happy to help out in that sense. And I’m sure everyone listening to this is, you know, good and respectful of that. And they’re not going to spam me. So I’m not worried about

Heather Mason  1:10:12

we will not but I am going to give you some questions for your next. Your next episode.

Jeff Cayley  1:10:15

Yeah. Oh, it sounds good.

Heather Mason  1:10:18

Jeff, thank you so much. Yeah.

Jeff Cayley  1:10:19

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Heather Mason  1:10:21

Alright, so that is it. I invite you to connect with me and come on bicycle retail radio. Share your story with our listeners. If you’d like to support the show. Don’t forget to subscribe and share your favorite episode with friends and on social media. We’ll be sharing Jeff’s episode out on our channels as well. Thank you for listening. See you back here soon and with this week.

NBDA   1:10:43

This has been bicycle retail radio by the National bicycle Dealers Association. For more information on membership, and member benefits, join us at nbda.com

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The NBDA has been here since 1946, representing and empowering specialty bicycle dealers in the United States through education, communications, research, advocacy, member discount programs, and promotional opportunities. As shops are facing never-before-seen circumstances, these resources offer a lifeline. Together, we will weather this. We at the NBDA will not waver in our commitment to serving our members even during this challenging time—but we need your support.

Now is the time to become a member as we join together to make one another stronger. Whether you’re a retailer or an industry partner, your membership in the NBDA is one of the best investments you’ll make this year. 

Learn more about the benefits of being a member and join now.

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