Mark Sutton – Cycling Industry News
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Mark Sutton – Cycling Industry News
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Meet Mark Sutton. A cycling journalist with over 15 years of experience who established Cycling Industry News; a global brand and leader in its domestic market. A freelance contributor to various industry publications with a keen interest in everyday cycling, product innovation, and cycling infrastructure. His goal is to promote cycling at a local, national, and global level.
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Mark Sutton – Cycling Industry News
Tue, 4/6
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
bike, bike shops, people, cycling, industry, shop, bit, market, uk, local, local bike shop, retailers, trends, business, bicycle, cyclists, nice, retail, cargo, customers
SPEAKERS
Heather Mason, NBDA , Mark Sutton,
NBDA 00:10
You are listening to bicycle retail radio brought to you by the National Bicycle Dealers Association.
Heather Mason 00:16
Welcome to another episode of bicycle retail radio brought to you by the NBDA. This is Heather Mason. Thank you for listening. I’m so happy you’re here. If you’re a first-time listener, be sure to check out all the previous episodes do us a favor and leave a review. As always, the MBTA is thankful for our donors and association members. If you would like to make a donation to the MBTI you can do so directly on our web page. Thank you to the farm to fork fitness adventures for their recent Association partnership. With so many new riders finding our sport, it’s so important as a shop to keep them engaged. And we couldn’t think of a better opportunity than a local event or destination where they can use their new equipment. Farm to Fork fitness adventures has been rated one of the best trips by outside magazine and it’s a bucket list that by Men’s Health. It’s recommended by men’s journal, the Boston Globe and Bicycling magazine. If you want a memorable experience or you want your customers to thank you for the suggestion, look it up at Farm to Fork fitness calm. Today’s guest is Mark Sutton. He’s a cycling journalist with over 15 years of experience. He established cycling industry news, which has quickly grown to become a global brand and leader in its domestic market. He’s also a freelance contributor to various industry publications. He has a keen interest in everyday cycling product innovation and cycling infrastructure. His goal is to promote cycling at a local, national and global level and enthusiasm for all kinds of two-wheeled activities. He’s quoted to say it feels silly describing my role as work. So excited for this one. Welcome, Mark.
Mark Sutton 01:51
Thanks for having me on. It was nice to be on the other side of an interview for once.
Heather Mason 01:56
Oh, my gosh. So how are you mark? It’s been some time since we caught up.
Mark Sutton 01:59
Yeah, pretty good. We’re sort of emerging from the end of a long winter here in the UK, we’ve got the first step of the pandemic control sort of coming to an end this week sort of starts to link up and see people outdoors again, which is a nice luxury almost feels like a luxury now, but we’re doing good over.
Heather Mason 02:18
Yeah, this whole getting out and getting back to normal is something I’m definitely looking forward to. I think it’s been what like a month now since we originally chatted. And just for our listeners some background, I personally refer to cycling industry news daily for my education content, it’s on my LinkedIn feed. And when I first stepped into this role, I reached out to mark about a research publication they had done that helps to forecast the bicycle industry future. The publication is titled The Independent retailer study. And we’ll dive more into that later. But what struck me about my first conversation with Mark is that he was just such a dynamic individual. I was looking through his industry history experience, and our conversation was so positive. Mark, did you previously know about the MBTA? Before I reached out to you?
Mark Sutton 03:05
Yeah, I’ve been lucky while the interbike show was on. So regularly, I was I was out there most years for probably six or seven years on the trot. Really enjoyed that one. I got pretty familiar with the US market during that time. A good number of people that are now called friends, including, you know, a couple of contributors that have really helped cycling industry news in the early days in particular, you know, one of those is Jay Townley, who I know does some work alongside the NBA and has really been an amazing person to work with. He’s quite sort of visionary in the way he looks at things. I think I’ve always enjoyed his pieces. And I know he keeps a good track of what’s going on in your market. So yeah, he’s somebody that chips into cycling industry news in the early days. I’ve I’ve interviewed some past presidents of the NBDA to come back to your question. And yeah, I just genuinely enjoy every contact I’ve had with with people in the USA. It feels like a different market. In many respects to the UK market. I find it very engaged and I guess, you know, a good good portion of our room. Probably about a quarter of our of our website traffic comes from from your side of the pond. So yes, it’s nice to sort of have that relationship back and forth.
Heather Mason 04:22
Mark, I had no idea you were going to bring up Jay Jay Townley is a great friend of mine. Actually, I guess it’s no longer a secret him and I talk weekly we I consider him a mentor and we have a weekly zoom call. It’s exciting to me that you brought up Jay because I think he’s just so experienced in our industry. He’s a great friend of MBTI. So that was definitely news to me. But I can’t thank you enough for teaming up so quickly to become a friend of the day as well as offering the discount to our members on the independent retailer study and also on the job postings on your website. So thank you. I just want to know like, give our listeners a little bit more About You, where do you live? like where are you currently,
Mark Sutton 05:02
London’s pretty much the reference point. But I’m I’m about an hour north bike ride of London, and little town called Hartford. It’s not particularly exciting cycling country here. If you want to have any sort of adrenalin bike riding here, it’s pretty flat. So you either you either build the funding yourself or you buy a bike rack and you you head out a little bit. You know, over the years I’ve I’ve sort of got involved in things that have captured my interest locally, design at the local skate park and lobbying for that. And it’s sort of come full circle just recently, trying again to get a pump truck built in my in my hometown, as well as you know, various little mountain bike tracks and things so yeah, it feels like I’ve been here a while. Yeah,
Heather Mason 05:48
I wish you lived in my hometown skatepark calm track. You sound pretty cool. How did you find cycling Did you raise before,
Mark Sutton 05:56
I’ve never really done the competition side of things, mostly because I’m not a very good rider. I guess I’m, I guess I don’t take it too seriously. I’ve got I’ve got a number of bikes in my shed and I can, I can never really tell day to day, which one I’m in the mood for. It’s just whatever, whatever the weather is doing outside and whatever I’ve got to do in the day, I’ll go and pick the bike that suits their best lately, I’ve got sort of back into a lot of dirt riding, you know, as the grounds drying out here, the trees are suffering on the moisture in the ground. So the trails are speeding up quite a bit at the moment. So I wouldn’t say I’m seasoning. I definitely enjoy going fast and maybe catching a bit of error if there is something on the trail.
Heather Mason 06:37
I love that. And I definitely agree with you. I kind of just pick up whatever bike I feel that day. You know, I used to be a racer myself, but now I think I just more ride for I don’t know casual. New cyclists are emergent new cyclists are finding bike shops, new people looking to get outside now, sometimes just wonder about this term cyclist, right and what that word means. What do you think about when I say the word cyclists Do you
Mark Sutton 07:03
think I’ve said to you previously, that’s that’s a funny one in the UK, it gets bandied about in so many different ways. We don’t have a good time here with the national press in particular, and the word cyclist almost has a bit of a tainted edge to it now. So I you know, people who ride bikes is the better way to phrase it in my view, because you know, we’re, for the most part, we are just, you know, people getting from A to B. And that’s, that’s a big thing. At the moment, the transport side of things with with all of these temporary, some are becoming permanent, some are not lasting very long. But we are starting to see just more and more people who just enjoy riding bikes, for whatever reason, whether it’s, you know, they’ve actually worked out there, it’s a nicer way to get to work in the morning, or whether it’s just leisure. I don’t like to put too much of a badge on it really. But yeah, it’s not nice to see it normalized. I think, finally,
Heather Mason 07:57
Yeah, I agree with you. And I’m definitely you know, when you’re just speaking there, I was thinking of the word cargo, and I’m thinking about how the cargo, you know, market might be next for the US and we’ll have more people utilizing bikes for various different reasons. Okay, so let’s talk about your local bike shop. So do you have a local shop? And do you visit it frequently, or you work on your bikes yourself or talk to me about that,
Mark Sutton 08:19
if I work on my bikes myself, things end up upside down on backwards. So yeah, my local bike shop does does any mechanics. And I don’t keep a great schedule. So they they pretty much hate me when I wear my bike. And I work quite closely with the local bike shop, like I said, with this attempt to get various, you know, pump tracks and cycle training and even some infrastructure changes locally. My my local bike shop is called highway cycles. That’s they’ve got that on to it. But they’ve also got an on site, Hartford cycle hub, which is really doing some good work to sort of engage new people in cycling. They’ve got a lot of big ideas on you know, they’re introducing the Brees rides, for example, to to get more more women locally riding doing it, the whole cycling advocacy side of things, sort of between us, we’re really trying to join the dots, there’s a big demand for as well, you know, we’ve got plenty of local data to support the effort that myself and the local bike shop, they’re trying to put forward to the local authority here in order to get get some things built. So yeah, my local bike shops really, really proactive, and I think quite progressive in our market. So it’s nice.
Heather Mason 09:33
And I’m thinking our shops in the UK experiencing the same boom, we are here in the US.
Mark Sutton 09:38
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think that seems like it’s a fairly global thing. But yes, we certainly are experiencing that. We have the same supply problems and things at the moment that I think people are scratching their heads over as to when that settles again. I can see a lot of investments being made but you know, there’s all sorts of delaying the is actually arriving. There’s lots of shops saying to me that they’re a bit concerned about grinding to a halt. And there’s so many threads on our on our trade Facebook page just sort of saying, has anyone got this part? Does anyone know the supplier or an alternative source for this way on the back of the boom? Certainly I noticed in our data and in our subscriptions, that there’s a whole load of people just opening up on that boom, whether whether they’ve been laid off from other jobs or furloughed or whatever they there appear to be, certainly on the workshop side at a trend of openings. I worry now that actually, they’ll struggle in you know, their early years, because of this situation. It’s It’s been nice and certainly a lot of people have done well, they’ve, you know, they’ve revitalized stored some cash and reinvested but the next few months to a year are looking a bit difficult, I think,
Heather Mason 10:59
Yeah, I agree with you. And, you know, I always ask about the local shop, because I feel like, right now, it’s a time to maximize, you know, cut down fixed costs, but also to maximize additional revenue sources and asked by the local shop isn’t, really maybe give an indicator of what great shops are doing. So what’s like a highlight of your local shop is there anything that retailers could learn from something that they’re doing that maybe is a benefit for the local community or to grow, ridership,
Mark Sutton 11:27
more local shop, we had a lot of string of many years of closures, because it was it was a tough market up and up until, you know, almost pre pandemic, thing, things weren’t really heading in the right direction, there were there were a lot of closures and, and my local shop was it was taking new ownership. And it was a, what I’ll call a businessman is taken over and, and really, you know, given given it the structure, I think, you know, I can sort of tell by speaking with the staff there that they all know their, their task. And actually, they’re asking for new tasks to sort of grow the business, I know, they have sort of pretty regular meetings to sort of decide where they can help grow the business. But also, like I say, the the arm, which is more into growing ridership as a whole. So there’s a real team effort to sort of put those ideas out there. And I think, you know, that has spawned into the Hartford cycle hub side of the business, where this effort really to stimulate the the things in the in the local area that will eventually drive up ridership. And you know, that will come full circle, I’m sure it will benefit the business. But that’s not necessarily the intention is just to keep growing, the local ridership. And they’re doing this behind the scenes, a lot of the work, they’re really trying to join some dots with, you know, people who have that same decision making, you know, transport planners and road engineers and so on, just tried to bring as many people with experience into the discussion. And then we can present them the data that’s been gathered locally. It’s about starting a discussion, I think one thing we’ve realized is that we didn’t know that so many people will have the same opinion existed locally. There’s such a coming together now of people saying, Oh, yeah, I’ve been thinking this for a long time, we should join this route to this route. And, you know, who has the say on that bit of land? How could we get the paths joining and opens up commuter arteries that link up towns that makes ridership so much more viable? You know, even for a person like me, if I had a connection to the other side of my town that was off the road, from the other side of town, right to the doorstep of my work is a psychopath, but it’s not door to door. And I think you can have arteries that you sort of need the bits feeding into those to really stimulate local cycling growth. And that’s something where we’re sort of trying to work out how to do.
Heather Mason 14:05
Yeah, I could not agree with that more the shops I’m having with retailers here. The conversations I’m having with retailers here is about local advocacy, and how we can team up with him or people for bikes. So you’re not just you’re not just a retail environment anymore. You’re also advocating for local trails and local routes, and safe places to ride. I want to know more about your journalistic background, but you mentioned something earlier called Brees rides. Can you tell me more about that more?
Mark Sutton 14:32
Often, I’ve been on one myself, but I think they are taught to engage more women in cycling. I know that they’re there. They’re setting it up in local to begin at the local store and just just to bring people together and I guess you sort of feel the community and the safety and numbers and you can sort of feed off of each other and grow and grow the confidence. That’s the idea behind that.
Heather Mason 14:56
Definitely a big focus in the US market and for myself in particular See, you know, events just for women or, you know, a comfortable place to get started in the cycling world. So I just wanted to learn more about that. Because, again, I’ve heard you mentioned that some curious about how you got involved in journalism in the bicycle side of the industry. So I was looking on your LinkedIn account and saw your past positions? Did you get into journalism with a goal to head towards the cycling industry? or How did that work out?
Mark Sutton 15:24
Really, I was in college, to colleges actually doing doing media and journalism. I knew that that was the rough direction I wanted to head in, you know, when I, when I started out writing, I would joke with friends that, you know, wouldn’t it be cool if we wrote for mountain biking UK, or something like that, that was the magazine we read. Back then, I guess it was sort of aligned in that direction. But it was a bit of luck, really, my mum found an advert for like this, the other trade magazine here in the UK. And that was in my hometown, which I had no idea about, up until the point I saw that ad. And so I went in, went into the interview with a folder full of clippings, where I’d shadowed a local reporter, and we had a sort of off the books cash arrangement, where I’ll tip him off for the local news, I think he got a lot of his stories for me, actually, I sort of had my head down during those college years to at least, you know, pursue that journalism career. And it was just a sort of happy accident, I ended up in cycling. And that’s where I’ve been ever since.
Heather Mason 16:31
I feel like it’s your place, though. I feel like you belong here. So, you know, I was looking at, you know, bikebiz, and your work with cycling, electric. And I, I wake up every morning, and I mean, I know you’re ahead of me and the time zone, but I’m thinking about the role you’re in. And you must always be in this future mindset. Because you’re bringing timely content. I don’t know, maybe I’m naive. But I’m wondering how you stay ahead of the game like how, how are you just able to bring this content daily, multiple times a day, that’s for thinking totally about that. It’s crazy. To me?
Mark Sutton 17:04
That feels like a big compliment. Thank you. This year hasn’t really felt like that, in particular, because it’s just been such a year of turbulence, particularly for the the UK. You know, the first series of emails opened this year were, you know, frantic one saying, Oh, you know, what’s the deal with Brexit? Like, what? What are the rules, regulations, it feels like it was signed at such an 11th hour that businesses here, we’re just not briefed at all. And so it was a steep learning curve this year, and to stay ahead of anything was was a real challenge. This year has been interesting, particularly for the UK market, and then COVID on top of that, well, yeah, it really, really has been difficult in at times. But I guess with the electric bike side of things, I’ve been writing about that market ever since. I guess you could say it was one call at a point it it had the the heavier lead acid batteries? And how am I gonna remember that?
Heather Mason 18:04
Those were huge batteries. They were awful.
Mark Sutton 18:08
I’ve been writing about the electric bike side of things for a hell of a long time now. So perhaps I could I could be a little bit ahead on that. But you know, that’s evolving a hell of a pace as well. So, yeah, it’s really not easy to be ahead of the curve. I work slightly differently to many journalists, I wouldn’t say I have a plan. And I that sound that sounds like a bad thing. But it’s I think, in this day and age, you do need to be reactive and quite fluid.
Heather Mason 18:36
I would say definitely surrounding yourself, maybe with people, right, who are working in the future maybe keeps you into the loop of what’s happening yesterday, I spent the day talking with a lot of people in the supply chain. And you know, what’s coming down the pipeline? And I think that always helps, right? Just having that mindset. And then thinking forward by to cycling industry news. It’s a UK specific focus, or do you have a plan for, you know, more of a global market reach? Can you tell me a little bit about that?
Mark Sutton 19:06
Yeah, so that that’s another thing that has kind of gone backwards or forwards over time when I just rewind a bit. You know, I came to the job, cycling industry news, almost by accident, I bought by base was moving into it to an office in London, and I didn’t want to do that commute. So I was looking around for jobs. And there was a newly launched rival at the time called cycle trade. And I assumed the job was for that. And it turns out, it wasn’t an actually it was a whole lot closer, it was it was only a few towns over. It was my publisher was essentially fishing at the time to sort of see if there was scope to launch a cycling magazine and you know, we met up and and we made it happen. So it was a bit of a an accident, but our visions for it have sort of differed and aligned at different times through through the timeline and cycling industry news. When we set out it was it was his beautiful to sort of be a global platform, or as I was a bit more narrow on it, saying it every quarter, you know, do a good job in the UK. And that’s what we’ve we’ve gone on to do, we’ve we’ve tended to focus on the UK. And naturally over time, these things grow, we get a lot of business for from Europe, nowadays, there was a time where I was quite interested in doing a lot more with the US. But then again, your markets, your markets very large, and we’re quite a small team. So in short, I would say our focus now is the UK. But with a global trend. Overview as well. different trends come from different markets. So we perhaps if we see something like gravel riding coming from us, we’ll try and assess whether it’s applicable to our market and the rest of Europe, e bikes going going the other way, of course, we try to keep it keep it focused, but but with with an eye open for other opportunities,
Heather Mason 20:59
I can totally relate to a small team, you know, and wanting to take on a bit, you know, having a big thing you want to take on but definitely narrowing the focus to make it a little bit more. But I feel like a lot of the content you put out is definitely relatable for the US market too. And I thoroughly enjoy reading everything that you publish on, on LinkedIn, and on your website as well. And that’s how I previously reached out to you around the independent retailer study. And thank you so much for making this study available to the MBTA. Members. If you’re a MBDA member listening, you can go to your member resources page to learn more about that. This is the fourth year right mark for the study.
Mark Sutton 21:38
That’s right, yeah, this takes up a lot of my time, sort of through q4 through q1 now, I was never necessarily intended when we set out to go down this road. But I think from a b2b magazine point of view, we need to be evolving as the rest of the industries evolving. And so to a degree is a hedge against what what I see is a potentially turbulent future for b2b publications in the bike world. You know, it’s no secret that there’s a cutting of links in the supply chain, on many fronts, luckily, offers that direct a dealer alongside direct consumer, but really to have this market intelligence is sort of a sideline to the main thing that we do, just so we’re, you know, keeping relevant and keeping on top of the changes in the market, and able to advise, you know, clients that work with us what’s going on? And how to have successful relationships?
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Heather Mason 23:00
So for years, and must be so much researches it’s like 47 pages or something right? Yeah, like
Mark Sutton 23:06
Yeah, yeah. And that’s, that’s without any of the analysis. The report that, you know, is available is, is pretty easy to engage with. It’s just a series of graphs and data and essentially bike shop opinion on what motivates them to sign up with certain suppliers and what the turn offs are on the flip side of that, you know, the bike shops are very kind in helping us out, we two years in a row have had just shy of 250 bike shops, which, you know, it takes a little bit of a rallying call. But, you know, I appreciate everyone who who pitches in because it, it’s nice to be in a position of a b2b mag, and genuinely be able to claim Okay, we understand what’s going on in this market. And that’s, that’s because of our readers.
Heather Mason 23:50
I mean, I think this is huge mark, you know, we would like to do something in the US market like this eventually. But this data is needed. It’s needed for our distributors, it’s needed for bike shops, you know, it’s definitely, and I noticed you have some nice sponsors that must feel good to have some distributors on board, right as partners.
Mark Sutton 24:09
Yeah, I think we’re getting to the point as an industry where we’re getting to grips with the importance of, of having data to check our biases against that and, and sort of reinforce the things that we think we know or we do not. We don’t know this, it’s useful to have something concrete to say, okay, for my sales or marketing staff, here’s some information that will help them effectively get this product to market.
Heather Mason 24:37
We talked briefly and this was our last call and I’m just gonna wing this one out at you. But I know this is a UK focused survey, but is this good for the US market? Is there something that you as readers will gather from that scratch?
Mark Sutton 24:51
A lot of it is applicable wherever you are in the world, particularly they know the things that suppliers can take from from what actually makes a good retailer relationship, whether it’s you know, what they deem an acceptable margin on a product, or how they expect the sales rep experience to go, you know, a whole bunch of factors where there’s learnings to be taken on, on how to have sort of cohesion in that relationship. And there’s a lot more information as well, which, you know, speaks on the broader sales trends, and what segments are doing particularly well, you know, as we said earlier, some trends do translate over the water in time. So, and I feel like the electric bike thing your your side of the point is, was a bit more reluctant than we were actually more reluctant in Europe. But I think I think it’s coming through Europe to the UK. And I think the US will ease up on it certainly seems to be easing up on it. I remember many years ago, thing in the trucks getting taken up bootleg Canyon interbike. It was such a mixed feeling. Everybody wanted to try electric bikes, but there was also some pessimism about it. But I feel like that so using up, you’ll probably know better than I.
Heather Mason 26:05
Yeah, I would agree with you. Yeah. Oh, gosh, sorry. You’re saying sales trends? And do you mind if I put you in the hot seat on this one? You’ve done? You’ve done so much research for this. And I’m wondering, looking forward for sales trends. Can you give us any insight on where you think, you know, some of your research is pointing that, that this is going?
Mark Sutton 26:25
So I mean, the past year has been quite an anomaly for the pipe business, and probably more so than many of us who haven’t known. I don’t think we’re done with some of the odd trend fluctuations. So again, that’s that’s a nice thing to have the data to understand what interests and sort of concerns me in equal measure is the number of businesses within the study that are all young, as I said earlier, so in the current climate, we don’t perhaps know yet if the industry is in a good position for accessing this stock during this shortage earlier in the pandemic, suppliers might have been celebrating the sudden burst in new accounts. Now, I think it might be becoming a bit more of a headache, even if it’s, you know, good accounts, registering money. Just a bit worried about grinding to a standstill? No, I think so trends, it feels obvious, but e bikes is the one love them or hate them. They are huge and growing. This is the single log largest investment area for in our study, for retailers and for workshop technicians investing in the training. That’s another element sort of covered where where shops are investing in the service side. And yeah, the workshop, it has for many years been in the ascendancy in the data, but it just it just keeps going. And there’s, you know, early on in my study, we seek to establish whether their bike shops, workshops, or combination of both, or perhaps their mobile mechanics. Yeah, there’s there’s certainly more and more workshop only businesses and mobile out there now than there was per employee years. So that’s that’s definitely a trend. Yeah, I mean, our workshops are really chaotic places at the moment, you know, the shortages aside, we’ve we’ve actually got a government incentive at the moment for people to take their bikes out of sheds and garages, and they get 50 pounds towards that. So as much as that is very welcome. And it’s a scheme that we would love normally, at the moment, we are essentially sending customers to workshops that have already got a lead time of a week or more with with a voucher asking for extra paperwork on you know, stock that doesn’t exist. Yeah, it’s it’s just, it’s getting a bit complicated at the moment, the workshop is good that they have invested so heavily in it, because there’s no shortage of work there at the moment.
Heather Mason 28:51
I agree with you one of the number one topics that comes up in our networking session, as you know, service and service scheduling and how we can be more efficient because it’s getting out of hand. I can’t imagine, you know, if consumers in the US walked into a shop right now extra extra stuff for shop owners to fill out that they wouldn’t be that happy about that. But I love the incentive. Right. That’s nice. Gosh, all right. So any tips for retailers on working with suppliers or for securing inventory? Like you mentioned that a little bit so any tips you have there?
Mark Sutton 29:22
Yeah, I mean, we’ve we’ve got some really great suppliers here in the UK that do invest fairly well in education and their b2b sites. So you know, there’s there’s this normally held her hand, I mean, a lot of the suppliers are just as stretched as the shops at the moment with orders coming and going and trying to source the stock themselves. Yeah, I don’t really have any tips to jump the queue because I just don’t think that’s viable at the moment. There’s some suppliers here have some really good people on the road that helps shops you know set themselves up to to have strong sales. Through the seasons, you know, I was in a store not too long ago that dressed up a really nice gravel bike display, you know, a gravel surface, the bike, absolutely dripping in bikepacking gear, accessories. And for the customer to have a visual like that. And for the bike shop stuff as I have that to sell from, you know, I’ve seen a lot of suppliers really working quite closely with the shops to to really improve that visual merchandising. Yeah, that’s something I would say it’s quite effective or retail level that I’ve seen more action, people investing it and the time to sort of put the customer in the shoes of this,
Heather Mason 30:38
this rider create the image, right, myself, I’m a cyclist, I’ve been in the industry for years, I walk into a shop and I see something like that. And I’m like, Oh, look at that bag. I want that backpack. And so, I’ve been talking a lot about cargo. I think, you know, two years ago, one of my mentor said, watch this cargo Market Watch, you know, we’re gonna be seeing FedEx and UPS and different delivery services using cargo bikes. And I’m like, convinced that it’s gonna come here. Any thoughts about that? Are you seeing anything about like commercial cargo use around bikes?
Mark Sutton 31:11
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, more. So more so on the commercial, perhaps, then, than on the person, although, you know, they’re very, very useful things on the personal side, too. But, you know, there’s there’s shops here that have actually been ahead of the curve on that in the financial markets, they might say, buy the rumor sell the news? Well, they’ve bought the rumor that this is coming. And actually now they are really selling it through. They’re ahead of the game and the contracts that they’re getting off of the back of taking the punt on this trend arriving. We’re not talking one or two bikes, we’re talking whole fleets of bikes for companies on this cargo thing. So that’s worth a lot of money to the bike shop. Certainly, you know, I don’t, I don’t think I’ve heard figures quoted quite as high as some, and really made a success of, you know, approaching businesses and saying that this is a really efficient way to distribute your goods around a city that’s coming at you, it has to mathematically have this sort of analogy, where I would say that cars are like marbles to the city funnel, and smaller things micromobility bikes, scooters, is the sand to that funnel, you can track as many marbles in they’re gonna stack up, but the sand will always go through. And this is what the cargo bike essentially is now, it’s replacing the van. They’re really efficient. There’s a really cool business here in London called pedal me. And there’s a essentially a scientist, I think that works for them. And he’s, he’s crunched the numbers, he’s run it against, you know, the amount of deliveries they can make versus the amount of deliveries a commercial van can make. And it’s just astonishing how far ahead you can get with the cargo bike in pretty much any city where the topography is, you know, reasonable. I don’t think you get away with it in super steep cities. So
Heather Mason 33:02
somewhere like San Francisco or something like that, maybe perhaps, yeah.
Mark Sutton 33:06
But yeah, for the most part, I think this, this has to become part of the future.
Heather Mason 33:11
I definitely think like New York City, even, you know, the schematics of getting the vans and trucks into the city, a cargo bike just makes so much more sense. So, um, I’m interested to see where that goes, Mark, I just want to flip back over to ebikes. Because I know you’ve spent so much considerable time like researching and working in that market. In the US, we’re seeing a boom, but retailers continue to ask how can I scale this they want, you know, they’re cautious any tips you can have for retailers in the us about the E market?
Mark Sutton 33:42
Yeah, I think try to open your mind as wide as possible on it, you know, I interviewed somebody just this morning, who is racing Pro, but she’s racing, pro e bike, she’s a new mum as well. And I think I went into the interview assuming would be talking about how, you know, she’s managed to get more laps in that as part of her training. And that’s true, that’s true, you know, she she’s definitely covering more ground, getting in more training, you know, more descents as well as she’s, she’s got more energy for throughout the whole day. But she she sort of swung it towards her role as a new Mum, it’s another full time job. So she was sort of saying I’ve, if I’ve only got an hour to play with then for me, I’m perhaps not going to reach from my from my normal bike but I can cover so much more ground and really make it worthwhile and an E bike and she said as a mum that was that was very important for her to you know, stay motivated and keep going keep getting the exercise and, and the fresh air. And that’s just applicable to so many people that you know, perhaps Aren’t you and I are the obvious ones are people that are sort of more elderly or have an injury or or just generally more unfit this. You know, I’ve interviewed so many people now where these have just changed their lives. And made them richer in so many ways, whether they’ve, you know, dropped the weight, and maybe they’ve gone on to buy another bike or whether they have stopped using the car so much. You know, for me personally, like I said earlier, I probably, I mean, I’m enthusiastic, all kinds of bikes, but I like it to be easy as well. And so my office where when you know, things are functioning as normal is about, it’s about 50 miles away, I’m going to do that more on an E bike, and I’m going to do on our paperwork, we need
Heather Mason 35:28
to see e bikes, it’s just another bike, right? It’s like n plus one. And e bikes should be in there. Because some bike shop owners that I’m friends with have gotten e bikes, because you know, they have their group rides, and maybe they’re not training as much as they used to. But now being on an E bike allows them to do the group ride and hang out, you know, hang on, and it’s just another tool. It’s another awesome, amazing. And if you haven’t tried one, just jump on one, it’ll make you want. Like, there’s so much fun.
Mark Sutton 35:54
Yeah, the bike smile, it sounds cheesy, but it’s a real thing. And I’ve seen it so many times over now, you know, some of the shoots we’ve been on, have involved getting models that, you know, they actually don’t really even cycled, let alone. It’s just, you know, we get some models and they jump on the bikes, and it’s their first time on it. And actually, we those first 10 minutes of them being on it probably the best times to get the photos because you get this human reaction,
Heather Mason 36:20
genuine smile that you make smile. I love that. Okay, so diving back over to cycling industry news. You know, I was on your website, preparing for our chat today. And I know you have all the content, but then I saw the interactive Facebook group and the job postings and you have a print publication. I feel like what you’re doing is super unique, right? Like, do you just keep adding different things to what you’re doing? or How are you responding to the market? Tell me about that.
Mark Sutton 36:46
Yeah, yeah, like I say, we try to be as reactive as possible. As I said earlier, I’m not normal. In the journalism sense, I’ve actually discouraged our title from really putting out too firm a features list forward looking, which year in publishing terms isn’t usual at all, almost everyone has that. I think things are moving so quickly now that there’s very little that you can plan months in advance, in particular, since COVID. I mean, that’s just secured things a whole bunch more. I’ve always tried to keep it. So you know, if somebody wants to work with us, that’s great. They do find it confusing initially, that I don’t just give them a whole features list and say, This is when I can fit you in. And I tend to be more, you know, tailored to their message, and we’ll do something together. But as a whole, ya know, pretty much everything we do is trying to react to something that’s going on in the market, day to day rather than month to month.
Heather Mason 37:44
So is any projects that are in the pipeline for cycling industry news that we’re not aware of yet? Can you tell us give us a sneak peek?
Mark Sutton 37:52
So yeah, in the in the background, it’s taken us a while, but it should be coming soon. Locks a small team. So you know, everything has to go back and forth quite a bit. But yeah, we have a brand directory, we’re trying to introduce online, few technical issues. It’s taken longer than I thought it would. But essentially what that is, is just a through our Facebook group, for example, where a lot of people are asking day to day, who does this brand? Where can I find this product? And so with that being such a common question put forward in particular at the moment, yeah, this online searchable brand directory, which, in theory could could roll out much wider than than just, it could go into services. It could even go into other countries. But yeah, I think we’ll start with the UK. Just you know, get because these things always have teething problems, even when you launch them.
Heather Mason 38:45
What a great resource, though, to keep people more connected, you know, but yeah, you gotta watch it, I think big scale all the time. But then I’m like, I should start here and make sure it’s set up, right. Gosh, this past year, Mark, we have seen so many changes in the cycling culture and industry. And one of them is the recent investments into our industry from outside sources, I’m sure you’re aware of so how do you think this will change our bike business moving forward?
Mark Sutton 39:13
Yeah, this is really accelerators. So I interviewed the guy who brought together the onion deal. One of the big bankers behind that. And I learned a lot from that, about this, this process that, like I say, there’s just yeah, there’s been more and more headlines of, you know, investment acquisition manager, you know, people taking in stakes in the business that have never really had that interest before. And this bike banker, as he called himself sort of said, you know, there’s, there’s a bunch of things here that investors are really into, whether it’s green economy, logistics, as we say, with cargo and things like that. He said that the bike industry was, you know, sort of fragmented to a degree that you can bring certain things together. I’m really improving quite Quickly, he did say that the investors had a preference for b2c brands when they put money in. I think the reasons for that are fairly obvious electric bike is the other big box ticker. I think the investment world really sees this emobility thing as a genuine world changer. Now. You know, I think I think your president has just announced a bunch of incentives for develop the side of things and some of the infrastructure alongside I went on a ride with a friend not so long ago, who was, you know, quite deep in the outdoor industry. And he wasn’t particularly complimentary about how an influx of outside money reshaped the industry as a whole. So I’m sure it will come with it with pros and cons. But the world does need to get, you know, get moving on this, this mobility change and the climate side of things. So whatever form it comes in, we’ve just got to get to grips with it and try and get a slice of the pie. If that money is, is coming in.
Heather Mason 41:04
Yeah, I’m personally I, the conversations I’ve had with retailers, especially about some of the ebike incentives coming down the line here are extremely positive. And, you know, I would agree with you there’s pluses and minuses. But I mean, more people are noticing our industry, you know, And to me, that’s a highlight. So I’m hopeful, you know, it’s not bad. It’s just different. And I’m very hopeful. So, but definitely, the digital market has shifted a lot and consumer buying online, you know, that whole experience has just accelerated, you know, off the hook. As we move towards this director rider model. You know, retailers are embracing it. Any thoughts you have on the future of retail in this regard?
Mark Sutton 41:47
Yeah, online, retail is really not going away. Is it? You know, one of the key indicators of sort of being ahead of the curve or not, I think was, if you look at some of the transport data, some of the fastest growing traffic on the road at the moment is vans, just delivery vans, you know, I have people show up at my front door, who are, you know, essentially just freelancers in their own cars just full of packages. Yeah, this online retail thing is not slowing down.
Heather Mason 42:16
I agree with you. It’s not it’s all I’ve been doing is trying to give tips to retailers on how to you know, make a better web platform, meet their digital consumers, when they’re there, there’s lots of different little tips of advice you can make to make the online experience so much better. So
Mark Sutton 42:32
yeah, but I don’t think this is you know, this is by no means the end of the road for physical retail, I think there’s the consumer has changed, you know, a lot, a lot of studies tend to say that millennials and Gen Zed, were more experienced, led, and by retails quite well positioned for that sort of thing. I think, you know, whether it’s setting somebody fleets up when they go flip for the first time, or, you know, bike fitting this, and the E bike thing, really, that isn’t, in my view, something that’s easy to sell online, because you need to have that experience, there’s a bit more to it. So yeah, I think I think the physical bike retailer, still got a hell of a lot going for it, just like I say, you got to attract these new customers, you gotta have something to differentiate yourself. And you’ve got to have a really nice in store experience that keeps people wanting to come back. And more than, you know, just keep them wanting to come back, give them a genuine reason why they almost have to keep coming back. If they if they’re going past your store, day to day front, talk to them understand what get them cycling,
Heather Mason 43:38
and listening, right, we have to listen to our cars, like genuinely like stop and actually listen to them. Some of the best ideas come when we do that. So Mark, you’ve spent so many years in the bicycle industry, and I constantly have young entrepreneurs reaching out thinking about opening a shop or maybe buying another shop. And I think this is a great opportunity to just get some advice from you. Any advice that you would give to someone like looking to start a shop or to buy a bike shop,
Mark Sutton 44:04
I guess I would revert to data on this one, again, presumably you know a bit about your local community, but try and work out what the issues are in the local community. And whether there’s anything that aligns quite naturally with you can improve the transport side of things in your local community, engage as much as you can with the local community. We have bike shops here in the UK that are quite successful that you perhaps wouldn’t expect. For example, they might just set up on a route that is known to club cyclists, you know, the top of a very notorious hill or something like that, where where riders will naturally come to a stop and, you know, catch their breath. You know, some of the shops that have opened up sort of half shop half cafes, in locations like that, with quite low overheads have done done quite well, just because they’ve become destinations. So yeah, it’s worth not assuming that the high street is, is the best place, of course, unless the high street is, you know, particularly people friendly and busy. I love that on a road with lots of traffic outside and no no cycle path going by, you’re going to have to do a bit more to get the customer and
Heather Mason 45:19
yeah, I love that it’s I feel like diversity in the bicycle industry and in the retail locations is huge. And you can be super unique and you don’t necessarily have to have that. But what I would say typical retail platform, anything can work right with a strong motivated individual, right? I think so. So Mark, last one I want to throw at you Since you’re so willing, today. I am, you know, a strategy that I have for the MBTA is to provide education and resource in order to create excellence in bicycle retail. And as I coined this term excellence in bicycle retail, I want to know if I say that to you, what does that mean excellence in bicycle retail,
Mark Sutton 45:58
if you can stay ahead of the curve and spot trends, as they’re reemerging. Think a little deeper. You know, like I said about the van traffic. That was a key indicator as to Okay, that’s not sustainable. If the van traffic’s the thing that’s growing, the fastest on the roads, and our roads aren’t particularly great as it is in terms of the congestion, we’re going to need a solution to that. And so those people that got to the cargo bike thing early, are now known as specialists in that and they’ve got a whole bunch of corporate accounts, looking at them and saying, okay, right, we need 10 bikes. In some cases, they need a lot more. So yeah, some sometimes I think it pays to take a little bit of a step back. And certainly don’t just come at it from an enthusiast point of view, just because you like something, it doesn’t mean your customer is going to, you know, if I just started a bike shop when I was younger, I think I would have just sold BMX bikes and told my customers to go and dig jumps in the woods, that might not have gone down so well over time. So yeah, I think it definitely pays just to listen, even if you don’t like some of your customers, just listen somewhere in between the lines, there will be will be a message saying, Okay, I’ve got this problem, and I’ve got nowhere to lock my bike in town. Well, you know, if you install a couple of bike racks outside your shop, then they do have somewhere to lock their their bike in town and it’s outside your shop, you’ve got a customer visiting your area pretty much every day then just step back and have a think about it from from other people’s point of view and, and how you could actually engage them.
Heather Mason 47:36
That is such great advice. I totally relate to you on the BMX side. Because if you only when I had my shop, I think for the first month I had a lot of great Shammi cream and 29 are hard tails because I wanted them but that didn’t go over well, so I had to definitely pivot. So great advice for bicycle retailer excellence tips, we could do a whole nother talk. I can’t believe it’s been you know, we’ve been chatting now for almost an hour. I can’t thank you enough for coming on and for sharing your knowledge and Intel and for supporting the national bicycle Dealers Association. Alright, so you can visit cycling industry news online at cycling industry dot news. And on their website, you can subscribe to their newsletter. I’d also recommend following them on LinkedIn and their social feeds. And they also have a Facebook group for discussions. Mark Do you do the podcast or who does the podcast for you guys is that you?
Mark Sutton 48:26
We do it between ourselves this there’s just two of us on the team like say quite a small team myself and liberty day to day we run it the the Facebook group is called cycling industry chat for anyone that wanted to catch up on that.
Heather Mason 48:40
So yeah, and so there’s also job board and cycling industry news provides a discount on postings for MBDA members. And if you want you can reach Mark directly at mark at cycling industry dot news. Mark. Thank you.
Mark Sutton 48:56
Nice to be honest, it’s like to be on the other end of an interview.
Heather Mason 49:00
So that is it. I invite you to connect with us and come on bicycle, retail radio, share your story with our listeners. Lots of love for our industry. There’s lots of great webinars coming up definitely member networking meetings. Please take part join us. If you’d like to support the show. Don’t forget to subscribe. Share your favorite episode with your friends. We appreciate your support. Thank you for listening. Come back soon and with us we go
NBDA 49:22
this has been bicycle retail radio by the National bicycle Dealers Association. For more information on membership, and member benefits, join us at nbda.com
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The NBDA has been here since 1946, representing and empowering specialty bicycle dealers in the United States through education, communications, research, advocacy, member discount programs, and promotional opportunities. As shops are facing never-before-seen circumstances, these resources offer a lifeline. Together, we will weather this. We at the NBDA will not waver in our commitment to serving our members even during this challenging time—but we need your support.
Now is the time to become a member as we join together to make one another stronger. Whether you’re a retailer or an industry partner, your membership in the NBDA is one of the best investments you’ll make this year.
Learn more about the benefits of being a member and join now.
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