Offering American Made Titanium Bicycles

Offering American Made Titanium Bicycles

Tue, 5/25

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

bike, bikes, customer, titanium, dealer, brand, sage, ride, people, bicycle, retailers, shop, industry, consumer, racing, custom, components, offering, builders, wheels

SPEAKERS

Heather Mason, David Rosen, NBDA

NBDA   00:10

You are listening to bicycle retail radio brought to you by the National bicycle Dealers Association.

Heather Mason  00:17

Welcome to another episode of bicycle retail radio brought to you by the NBDA. This is President Heather Mason. Thank you for listening. If you’re a first time listener, be sure to check out the previous episodes do us a favor and leave a review. As always, the MBTA is thankful for our donors and association members. If you’d like to make a donation to the MBTA or become an association member, you can do so directly on our web page. A special thanks to bikeexchange for their continued support of the MBTA may is National Bike Month and bike exchange is supporting retailers nationwide. With over 400 retailers working with bike exchange, they are the nation’s largest marketplace with the aim of virtually connecting online customers back to retail shops, you can learn more@bikeexchange.com Today’s guest is David Rosen CEO and founder of sage titanium bicycle company. Sage bicycles started in 2012. All of their titanium bikes are 100% design cut, welded and finished right here in the United States. domestic production gives unsurpassed quality control. In this episode, we will talk with David about starting a US company navigating drive train manufacturer relationships, selling Consumer Direct while still managing dealer relationships, and the satisfaction of more Americans on American made bicycles. So without further ado, welcome David. How are you?

David Rosen  01:39

I’m doing great. Their life is good. Busy riding my bikes enjoying being in the industry.

Heather Mason  01:45

It’s awesome to have you on the show. And thanks special. Thanks. Let’s give a shout out to our mutual friend Dan Park owner of chainring rhythm who connected us for today.

David Rosen  01:55

Yeah, no, Dan is an awesome guy. So happy to be just a friend be more than anything. So

Heather Mason  02:01

man, this person. So how have you been this past year? How are things going?

David Rosen  02:06

It’s crazy. It’s been so good. Business has just been super strong as everybody can imagine within the industry. Bikes are selling you just you can’t keep stocking you can’t keep you can’t keep inventory. You’re just it’s everything comes in it goes right back out the door. So business has been great. It’s also been challenging for those same reasons. But at the same time, we have our record year last year, just tremendous growth last year. And this year, we’re still on pace to beat last year, which is kind of crazy. When you think about as the little brand that we are that kind of blowing up the way that we are. It’s been great. So definitely good stuff.

Heather Mason  02:43

Yeah, unprecedented times we went from not knowing what to expect to this intense boom. And it’s a great opportunity today. I’m really looking forward to our conversation because there’s so much chatter in the industry about US based companies and why can’t we just be ineffectual here? So really excited to just get into our conversation today? I love to give listeners an idea of where we’re at in the world. I’m based in upstate New York. I don’t even know where you are sorry. No, it’s

David Rosen  03:08

okay. I’m actually in Beaverton, Oregon, so probably about 10 miles outside of Portland downtown itself, if you will, certainly within writing distance. But yeah, I’m in Beaverton, Oregon. So Pacific Northwest, been out here since 2002. When I moved down, I’m originally from New York City. So there’s our New York connection right there. Yeah. moved out here in 2002. Just love the Pacific Northwest. And honestly, I can’t imagine living anywhere else at this point.

Heather Mason  03:33

Yeah, good riding, I’m sure right.

David Rosen  03:36

Oh, my God, it’s a dragon. It’s it’s one of those things. As a kid growing up in New York, I used to reading all the magazines pre internet for just dating myself there. But you’d see these images of the Pacific Northwest with the large trees and these ribbons of single track and dirt. And just it looked amazing. And then to finally come out here and the pictures are real. And you’re like, Oh, that’s amazing. And yeah, I just yeah, going into the forest every weekend to go mountain biking or explore new gravel roads and that sort of stuff. And just Oh, it’s fantastic. And yeah, I’m very happy out here.

Heather Mason  04:14

I don’t know about you, but I always get my inspiration for like the next big thing on a mountain on a ride. So I can’t imagine riding beautiful trails and your owner of stage bicycle company, you must have some great brainstorming time. Do you got Are you out? I mean, you must be riding like every day not.

David Rosen  04:29

I do ride. Yes. Do I ride every day. There’s a lot of swift involved. Just because work is so busy at this point that it’s getting out in the middle of the day or the afternoon. Its work comes first customer calls, dealer calls, vendor calls, that sort of thing. Those are the priorities. And so if the workout I need to do is at six o’clock at night, it’s easier to hop on the trainer. But weekends are dedicated to getting outside at least one day a week. I try and get outside and there’s a lot of writing to do and the So much inspiration. And that’s honestly where the bike designs come from. I ride the trails and I ride the roads. And it’s just there’s such a variety of terrain here. You know, we’ve got big mountains out here, you can easily go up to 8000 feet in different spots kind of thing. And coming from New York City where it was 20 feet above sea level. And you know, the highest point was the George Washington Bridge, this is totally different. But at the same time, you get this grand exposure to these different terrains and environments, everything from the desert, to rain forests, to urban life with Portland and Seattle, and that sort of thing, that it really gives you a diverse kind of experience from a bike design standpoint of what is applicable to what people are riding. And so it’s it’s a great cycling culture out here. So that definitely helps, too.

Heather Mason  05:49

I got to get back out to visit I’ve only been like twice, so I need to spend more time on the trails. Yeah, come on, let’s go. You know, our industry. I’m always surprised how people find our industry. But I think it always starts with a passion for cycling. I mean, it has to do right. So tell me how you got into the sport of cycling?

David Rosen  06:09

Well, I mean, if we’re really going all the way back, I suppose my first bike, the training wheels came off when I was four, and I got my first BMX bike when I was six, my first mountain bike race itself was in the mid 80s, again, dating myself fully rigid bike thumb shifters and all that sort of stuff. But I was hooked. And it just became this lifelong, you know, experience kind of thing. Greg LeMond was winning the tour back then, and that sort of stuff. And it was just this, there was just this larger than life thing about cycling and the freedom that it gave me. And it just, it was one of those things that I just immediately gravitated towards. And you know, I think just being able to go out and go ride with your friends. And it was just, that’s what it’s always been about for me is his friends and the relationship. So that’s kind of why I love the industry as much as I do, but eventually graduated into racing. And it’s kind of just blown up from there. It’s not just a passion. It’s just a way of life.

Heather Mason  07:05

Yeah, no, I totally get that. So your East Coast or you must race in like Vermont, he must have been like all around the state. Yeah. East Coast. Do you feel, David are you into?

David Rosen  07:15

Yeah, so I’ve done a lot of racing over the years. I mean, I started racing in the, I guess, the early 90s when I had my first driver’s license that I can actually drive to a race and then all the way up through I still race. You know, I have races on the calendar for this year. So I’ve been racing for almost 30 years, I suppose, which is kind of crazy. But I’m primarily now do cross country, mountain bike, enduro and gravel racing and for gravel racing, everything from shorter distance stuff to the big endurance events. So Belgian waffle ride I was supposed to do on unbound this year, but I pushed it back to next year. So that’s kind of a big one for me and doing that sort of stuff. So I’ve really gotten into those long 10 hour day races, but then the enduro stuff is a little bit shorter and just more fun kind of technical. So it’s different types of racing. So

Heather Mason  08:06

I feel like definitely like I go back and forth on racing and if I want to do another race this year, you know because I have a long history myself but keeps us really connected to the industry and into the bikes into the components into the people using them and we hear a lot I’m picturing you as you know, out there racing. I don’t even know what bikes you were on. As you were you know, growing up into the sport and through the sport, but how did you decide let’s start a bicycle brand. I’m just like, Did you think you could do it better you know,

David Rosen  08:33

it was really a case of around 2010 or so before I started Sage I you know, I was riding the latest carbon bikes and you know rode bikes at the time kind of thing. And I’d show up on a group ride with the newest bike like Hey, I got the new, whatever bike It was kind of thing and everybody would do an all over it and it rode fantastic. And then two weeks later, somebody would show up on the exact same bike. And it was just, it didn’t feel like there was nothing wrong with that but it just everybody starts showing up on the same bike and it just at some point the bikes all look the same. And it’s I felt like the soul was missing from it when I grew up in the in the 80s as kind of a shop rat either working in a bike shop or going and hanging out at the local bike shop kind of thing because I was friends with all the guys that worked in the shop and I used to love looking in the display cases of you know, the components and for me it was those were the jewelry counters for me so it would be you know, some people like looking at diamonds, some people like looking at rolexes I like looking at purple anodized derailleurs and so there was something about building the bike on your own and making it your own unique. You want a green grips and a purple derailleur great be my guess you wanted it all black, you know and murdered out kind of thing be my guess. And so I love that about the bikes. And so when I started seeing everybody showing up The same carbon bikes, and it was just the industry was so carbon, carbon carbon, it still isn’t nothing wrong with carbon. It’s a great material. And I use it on plenty of the bikes. But the frame itself just felt like it was just missing something. It was just the soul was, I don’t know, it just it missed it a little bit. And I just felt like something needed to be done about that. And at the time, I’d always loved titanium. So it was just a matter of pulling it together and going, Oh, I’m tired of seeing carbon bikes. And I really like titanium. Well, why not start my own brand. And so I was already in the industry at the time. And I was like, let’s just take a, you know, jump into it, take a stab at it.

Heather Mason  10:40

And wouldn’t even know where to begin. And I want to ask you about that. But I also so titanium, I mean, I grew up in the same town as serata, basically. So my experience with titanium was high end road and unattainable for me at the time. So you know, 2020 I couldn’t afford it. I’ve never even written titanium. What is it about titanium and your words? David, I would say you’re more like the expert, right consumers or if retailers have never even written a titanium bike. What is it about the material,

David Rosen  11:07

the ride quality is unique. It’s something that needs to be experienced. It’s not something that you can just if you have carbon bikes on your sales floor or aluminum bikes on the sales floor, maybe some steel bikes kind of thing and lower end steel, not necessarily the bespoke frame builders stuff like you’d see at the high end builders, that kind of steel because those bikes are tuned a little differently rather than just something that’s, you know, coming out of China, for example, there is a difference in the ride quality. Titanium has a feel like steel that it it absorbs the road vibrations, it dampens what’s going on for the feedback. So it’s not as harsh of a ride as aluminum or as carbon can be kind of thing. There are some carbon bikes that are fantastic. No question about it. But titanium is just kind of got this smooth ride. There’s a term people have used called the magic carpet ride. It just feels like you’re just on this carpet of smooth plush ness kind of thing. But it just you feel the road, which is something you don’t get with carbon carbon kind of deadens everything. Aluminum is just really harsh. I mean, it’s riding a soda cam. I mean, I love aluminum has this place. Don’t get me wrong. And steel just kind of depends on where it’s at. But titanium just kind of takes the best of everything. It just pulls it together. But it is something that is a unique experience that you you should ride you should at least try because once you ride it you’ll be like, Oh, I get what he’s talking about.

Heather Mason  12:35

Yeah, I was on your website. Save titanium calm. Anyone who’s listening save titanium calm. Go check it out the road gravel, cyclocross, mountain, and custom. I’m totally drooling over the mountain. By the way. I’m like ready to write a try. It’s high mountain bike. Have you ever thought about offering other materials David, other than titanium?

David Rosen  12:56

I did consider it for some time, there was a point we were toying with the idea of offering a steel version of the bikes that we do. But then we decided we didn’t really want to spread out too far and possibly dilute the brand. I mean, the website is Sage, titanium calm, right? So we can’t do steel, sage steel doesn’t quite work and sage, aluminum, etc kind of thing. It’s just, you know, sage, titanium calm. So we’ve hung our hat on titanium. And that allows us to really stay focused on the material and making the best bikes around that material rather than trying to diversify. And it’s just Yes, it’s a little bit more of a niche, but at the same time, it keeps us true to our heritage and what we’re trying to do.

Heather Mason  13:40

Yeah, I love that when we focus on something we can do extremely well. Alright, so let’s rewind, I want to know. So you’re thinking about starting a brand, you see a need. You want to be unique, and you’re offering How do you even go to set up a brand and find us base builders, and why do you SB? I guess would be a good question.

David Rosen  13:58

I guess the funny story is that when Sage started in the first year of business, and it’s out there on the internet, so it’s not like I can hide it. We actually the first year of business, we actually made our bikes in China, we found out yeah, it was we’re unusual in that regard that we started as a US based company, we started made in China and then moved to Made in USA, whereas everybody starts in USA and then moves overseas. So we brought it back in that regard. But yeah, we started with made in China, because we wanted to hit a certain price point. And you know, it was just try it was a very business centric approach of we want to hit X price point. These are the components we’re going to offer. These are the Bike Builds we’re going to offer and it was very regimented for what it was going to be. But what we realized was with China, and there are certain factories out there that do good work. I’m not saying bad things about anybody or anything like that. But the factory we worked with, the quality just went downhill every order it just got worse and worse. And you know, after we did one year before with them. And by the end of the year, we were having problems. And it was this just wasn’t acceptable for the brand. And it wasn’t where I wanted the brand to go. It’s kind of the reverse direction of how to build a brand if the quality is getting or so in that regard, it forced me to pivot and really reassess what the brand was going to be about and who the consumer was going to be and what we stood for it and that sort of thing. And so I made the decision, instead of offering mid price titanium to try and, you know, get into the market and expand from there, it was like we’re going all in on high end. And so we then started searching, I started searching for a facility that could do production level quality, as well as other builders who could do more of the bespoked concept. So we actually worked with several manufacturer, several builders kind of thing. So it’s, you know, our eggs are not all in one basket kind of thing. We’re primarily focused on some key builders at this time. And because of that, they give us priority for what we want to do in terms of design, craftsmanship, and level of quality that we can offer our customers. And it allows us to have a nice variety of offerings for customers. So we have production bikes, and then we have full custom bikes, and we can make custom bikes in our production facility. And we can make production bikes in our custom facility. But it’s just they kind of can Evan flow as we need to. And it allows us to be really flexible with the business.

Heather Mason  16:30

Wow. Okay, so you’re just like putting my brain around. So you’re constantly expanding, you’re making sure your relationships with your frame builders are solid? Did you start with just like a road bike and add to the line as you grew? Or did you have a complete, you know, road, gravel mountain in the beginning or,

David Rosen  16:49

in the very beginning, we actually have road cyclocross and a commuter bike, which the commuter bike is was kind of the precursor to the gravel bike, definitely different geometry, different setup and purpose built and that sort of thing. And our current bikes are the it’s not an evolution of the commuter bike, per se. It’s they’re completely ground up designs on their own, and that sort of stuff. That was what we started with. Were those three models, and we offer different levels of those models within but yeah, and now it’s expanded beyond that.

Heather Mason  17:22

Yeah, I mean, this past year, you must work with several different component manufacturers. I’m imagining, right? Have you kind of pivoted this past year,

David Rosen  17:30

the component manufacturers have been great, you know, the individual cockpits, forks wheels, basically, the non drive train stuff, we work with a very large network of component manufacturers, we’ve established great relationships with just about all of them, I think. And so it allows us to pick and choose what we need at any given time. So when a customer reaches out to us for a bike, we’re able to offer them a variety of different options. We’re not beholden to one different brand over another, we have some preferred brands we enjoy working with. But if their lead time for wheels, for example, is nine months, for a new set of wheels, well, that’s going to become a problem if a customer doesn’t want to wait that long for a bike. So you have to have alternative suggestions lined up that like, yeah, this brand can ship out wheels in a month kind of thing, because that’s the environment we’re working in at this point. But it’s going to take that long maybe to get these components as well. So everything kind of times out together in that regard. But yeah, it’s very much it is a case of working with a large network of component manufacturers.

Heather Mason  18:40

Yeah, when you’re offering such a truly custom high end experience to right, you have to be able to deliver to the customer exactly what they want. Exactly. Alright, so do you have a office facility? Where do you warehouse? How much were you telling me because I keep asking you,

David Rosen  18:56

we do have a full facility kind of thing. We have a full shop, we have a you know, warehouse facility, we’ve got all of that sort of stuff. COVID did change how we operate in terms of some of us are working remotely on a permanent basis. And that’s fine. But you know, between zoom and Google neat and everything else from a video conferencing perspective, we haven’t lost a beat and with everything, being with our stuff, being local here as far as manufacturing, warehousing, you know, shop build and that sort of stuff, it all just kind of work. So yeah, world headquarters is up and running in a variety of places.

Heather Mason  19:35

So is everybody made to order to the consumer or do you have some bikes in a warehouse and we’re ready to ship out.

David Rosen  19:41

At this point, every bike is built to order. It’s just Originally there were certain bikes that we had. They weren’t built right then and there. But if you called and said I need a 56 centimeter road bike or a 56 centimeter gravel bike with gr x or l Tegra. And I want these wheels We’ve got everything in stock, great, we can knock it out. And you know, Alright, we’ll get into the build queue. And we’ll turn around like a week or two, two weeks, three weeks, whatever it is, because maybe it was a case of we’re out of cranks, or the particular wheel you want we just ran out, we need to get more. So maybe that extends lead time to three weeks or something like that. But now with the current climate, and the shortages of everything that’s going on, every bike now, it’s so hard to be able to piece stuff together, drop bar shifters are super tough to find that you really have to treat each build, like a custom experience at this point. So while we do you have parts on hand, we don’t have everything. And I don’t think there are many brands out there that actually have everything on hand that they can just turn around and ship. So where our lead times were three weeks before for a complete build. Now we’re out to four months. But that’s still better than other brands. I’ve heard from customers say yeah, I called X, Y and Z brands, multiple brands. And they said it’s, you know, put a deposit down and we’ll talk to you in a year or we won’t ship for another, you can place your order now. But you’ll get your bike in December or January. And that’s not what we’re doing at all, it’s very much a case of if you call me up and say I need a bike, we’ve got frames in stock, we’ve got most of the components. And it’s just a case of then getting creative with finding the rest of the parts. Usually it boils down to drive train. So if for example, a shop has some drive train components on hand, then great, we’ll use your components that you have plus our components, and we’ll build the bike together kind of thing. So it’s not, we’re not holding the customer or the shop hostage, like we have to wait until this chain comes in. It’s like none of that, let’s figure out a solution to get the bike out faster.

Heather Mason  21:48

I love that it was a truly custom experience. You know, I was looking at your dealer locator online and thinking about the conversations, you know what, when a customer comes in, and they’re talking with a shop owner about an American made product, and now I can get one that is custom. It’s a really cool experience. I think that’s a really feel good moment, and it makes the shop look like a hero and you’re super accommodating. So it’s pretty Yeah, it’s a great thing. Alright, so day to day operations, marketing, you handle everything. David, do you have any employees or

David Rosen  22:16

I do I have a great team that does, you know, everything from marketing PR website, obviously, we have our welders, we have mechanics. So we’ve got the full complement of staff and a great team, but I’m the face of the brand. So I’m usually the one that’s doing all the point of contact with dealers with customers, you know, I think from a customer experience, they’re appreciative of being able to talk to the owner, and I’m putting my finger in air quotes for everybody listening in the owner of the brand. They appreciate that sort of thing, because it’s just kind of that personal experience they would normally not get if they were to call up a large brand and order a bite, they talked to a customer sales service salesperson and that sort of thing. I enjoy talking to people. So for me, this is it’s kind of natural, it’s the experience that I would want. And so that’s what I try and deliver to the customers, I’d rather have everybody else doing the back end stuff. And let me deal with the customers upfront and that sort of thing.

Heather Mason  23:13

That’s not an everyday thing, David, yeah, that’s pretty special about you, for sure. Are the customers appreciate that? Can you believe it’s been nine years now? So you started in 2012? So nine years?

David Rosen  23:24

Yeah. Yeah. LinkedIn reminded me the other day of that, like, Oh, God.

Heather Mason  23:31

Okay, so your distribution model Consumer Direct with build a dealer? I know, you also have dealers, was it always that way, give me a little walkthrough about how your distribution started and where it is now.

David Rosen  23:43

Yeah, so in the beginning, it was strictly dealer only. So back in, you know, 2000 launched the brand in 2012. First bikes were in stores in 2013. So back then it was really before this whole direct to consumer model really kind of started to take off. And so it was very much a case of dealer specific, you know, as always supporting the dealer and that sort of thing. And that’s always been the mainstay of what we do is, is supporting the dealer, but in the face of changing climates and changing times, and we’re trying to grow a brand. And you know, if there is a we have states where we don’t have dealers, we have a small dealer base kind of thing. But the dealer network, we have its relationships that I’ve established with these with the dealers. So it’s, you know, I can’t be everywhere at once. So I would rather be focused on the dealers that are really going to help push sage and really do a good job for sage and those are the ones that you know, I’m happy to work with. So, for example, we don’t have anybody in Texas. So Texas is listening. We’re looking for a dealer. And so you know, if a consumer calls me up and says, Hey, I’m in Austin, or Dallas, or you know, wherever, and they want a bike, I’m not gonna say no and we’ve shipped bikes to Texas. There are bikes floating around. Texas right now. And so we’re not going to say no to the customer. But at the same time, if we do pick up a dealer in one of those areas or anywhere in Texas, for that matter, it’s not doesn’t have to be Austin or Dallas. But if we pick up the dealer in that area, and the customer is within a reasonable distance of that shop, will start working with the customer and then loop the dealer in so that the customer then can go to the dealer, and the dealer gets a commission, you know, even though they may not have started it kind of thing, they’re going to finish it. And because we want the dealer to be the point of contact with the end consumer. So if the consumer is going to come in for a tune up or something, they should feel comfortable walking into a sage dealer, because they’ve established that we’ve established that relationship, they’ve established that relationship, then if the customer needs a helmet and shoes and all that other stuff, the dealer, here’s immediate upsell for you kind of think of all these additional things, but the dealer still gets their commission, because now we’re running the sale through them so that the customer will actually pay the dealer and then we’ll invoice the dealer, just like a normal transaction, even if we’ve started it on our end kind of thing, because it’s, it’s all about supporting the dealers and the dealer network that we have. But again, if there’s nobody out there, if there’s no dealer in the area, I’m not going to ask a customer to drive 400 miles to a dealer, that’s kind of insane. So we’re gonna sell direct to the consumer. And in today’s if you’re not doing it in today’s market, you know, as a bike brand you’re behind, we can’t afford to do that. But at the same time, there has to be a way to be able to support the dealers to ensure that they’re still running strong, because there’s still the point of touching the point of contact for the end consumer.

Heather Mason  26:44

You want excellent dealers, like I was looking at your dealer. Listen, you have amazing dealers that are truly behind the brand. Like I know, Dan, again, he is just leaving the stage by he loves the brand, he rides, he rides one himself. It’s like an extension of you almost right. I mean, it’s definitely like they know their product. Yeah, you have to be found, right. So if a customer is looking to buy a bike, and there’s no dealer in their area, we don’t want to lose the sale. But it’s also a way for you, you know, possibly to meet another shop as you’re trying to deliver this bike to this consumer or whatever way that the sale goes. So I hope someone from Texas is listening and reaches out.

NBDA   27:24

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David Rosen  28:06

You know where a customer will call up and there’s no dealer in the area, we’ll ask them, you know, what shop Do you use, and we’ll look online, take a look at the shop. And if the shop is going to be somebody that we could work with will actually reach out to the shop and go Hey, I’m Dave from sage, Bob or Julie is interested in buying a sage bike and we’re working with them, we want them to be able to come in and get a fitting with you. And that sort of thing. Because we see you guys do fit will direct the consumer to that shop then to go get a fit or you know, it’s a bob and Julie are a customer of yours, they reached out to us because they want a bike, we’re going to have them come in for you to get a fit. So we will send them to the shop to get a fit done. We’ll get the fit numbers, and then we can make sure we’re getting the right size bike for the consumer because customers will call up and go. I’m a 56 centimeter road bike. And that’s like, yeah, that’s what you think you are. But that may not actually be what you are because you may be just riding the wrong size. And if you’re gonna spend eight 910 $1,000 on a bike, let’s make sure it fits correctly. Like I don’t want to just sell you something that you’ve ordered online. You know, if a customer orders a bike online and they 56 centimeter, I still will question them. Are you sure this is the right size? Because I don’t mind switching up stuff and making it fit like it’s just because you ordered it doesn’t mean that’s what I have to ship you. And if it turns out, you’re a 54 or 58. Or maybe you need a different length stem or whatever set back on the seat post or something like that, then yeah, let’s still get that dialed in. Because again, this is a bike it should fit correctly. And it’s tough to do when you’re just doing it online. And I think there’s a scary portion of that for some consumers. So that’s why going into a shop is so important.

Heather Mason  29:51

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. Like you’re the expert on the phone, you know, talking to the consumers, as you mentioned, take that role, and it is it’s such a scary when I used to sell anything And we were Consumer Direct in the beginning, it was such a hard thing to sometimes I drove to someone’s house to meet them. And because I was not confident we were getting them the right size bike, right? Yeah, putting them to a retailer is a really great solution for that. Your dealers do they stock bikes, I don’t even know I haven’t been to the shop yet on the past year, because of COVID are your dealer stocking the complete line of sage bikes are like, what’s the barrier of entry to become a sage dealer, I guess,

David Rosen  30:27

our barrier of entry is really low, we usually ask for two bikes on the floor, whether it’s the same model or two different models, at the very least, just to kind of show off the variety of the brand is kind of where we’re after, we recognize in today’s climate, asking dealers like it used to be done where it’s like, you need to have a full size run of X, Y and Z models. So that’s like, you know, 10 to 12 bike order, it’s not realistic, and especially for the price of the bikes that we have, that’s definitely not realistic for a small shop kind of thing. And we don’t want to put barriers up in place where shops are gonna be like, I can’t order 15 bikes from you, like, that’s just not going to happen. And now they have to sell those. And the worst thing that we can have happen is our bikes sit on the floor, because it takes a little bit of time to sell these high end bikes, we don’t want you marking them down. So if you have one or two bikes on the floor, and you can actually sell off of those bikes, put a bike on the floor with a mid gear bill for us access, maybe some Eastern components, you know, some Astro wheels, something like that, in the foundation wheels, something that you know, a nice bike kind of thing, people come in and go, Ooh, that’s pretty, but it may not be the right size, it may not be the right color, but at least it gets the customer interested in the bike that they can go, I want that, but I want it with x, y and z, then we’re off to the races. And it’s all good to go. But if you happen to sell that for model, replace the floor model, but not that it needs to be having 25 bikes on the floor. Yeah, that would be great. And we’re not opposed to that at all. Because if you can crank them out, sure, we’ll give you a volume discount. But basically, it’s just it’s more a case of just having some bikes on the floor to show the off the brand, and get people talking about because it is a much more personal experience than just selling a 12 $100 x y&z brand bike.

Heather Mason  32:21

I’m sensing this as like I’m walking into a store. And I mean, I’m learning about Sage for the first time, and I’m learning that it’s me in the USA, and there’s custom bikes. So is that a popular program, your custom program? And I’m imagining retailers are really working well with that program and having great success, right?

David Rosen  32:39

Yeah, oh, it’s it’s very popular for us. And again, it boils down to when you realize when customers are realizing they’re gonna pay $8,000 for a bike $9,000 for a complete bike, that if they’re spending an extra two $300 on a fit, and they realize then that they can actually get something better, that maybe a production bike fits, that’s fine. But maybe they just have an off, you know, their torso is a little longer, their arms are a little shorter, one leg is longer than the other something along those lines, a custom bike can just the answer a lot of those questions. And because the timelines at this point, with the inventory shortages and sub component supply shortages are so long, it takes just as long to get a custom bike as it does a production bike. So in that regard, yeah, the custom program does great because just it gives a lot more versatility to people. And they like the idea of this bike is built for them, as opposed to them just walking in and getting something off the shelf. So when the customer is paying that much, it adds to the value of it all.

Heather Mason  33:45

Yeah, I’m sure I remember my first Serato experience. I didn’t buy custom. I couldn’t afford it. But I remember watching people get their fit done for custom and it was a big deal. So I think that’s really cool that you offer that. Alright, so are there racers on the brand currently have you? Have you won any titles? Let’s age bikes.

David Rosen  34:03

Well, so it feels like it’s been forever ago because it was 2019 at this point, which is for everybody. I suppose it’s forever but we did actually win our first national cyclocross championship, Jr. Manny was in the 15 to 14 to 15 or 15 to 16. But still, it was it was it was a fantastic race. So we do have one June we do have one national champ on the squad. We have a former World Tour racer who’s still doing he signed up for him unbound for this year. He’s Belgian waffle ride all the big events. He’s podium at some of the big events, SB T. He got, you know, he’s podium in the men’s pro category. He’s done a lot of great stuff. And then we do have the 2019, the reigning singlespeed World Champions on the squat as well. He’s a former professional road racer, and now he’s just kind of out having fun more than anything, which is totally cool. So we’re getting really good videos and content and that sort of Stephanie’s doing a little bit of racing still. But, you know, with COVID it’s kind of changed some stuff. And then we actually have some former professional road racers serving as ambassadors and a couple of ultra endurance athletes as well. So it’s a pretty cool squad.

Heather Mason  35:12

Yeah, it must feel amazing to have your bikes on the podium. Congratulations. That’s Yeah, that’s not that’s lacrosse. I love cyclocross, now, I will cross cyclocross bikes. So fun. You mentioned earlier, that you have this thrill of seeing more Americans on bikes, but also more Americans on bikes American made right. feel pretty good that you’re that you’re part of that right?

David Rosen  35:39

It does, I still get a thrill when I’m out riding with friends, and I come up on a customer writing a sage, it’s a total nerd out moment, because it’s, this is something that I created that’s giving happiness and joy. As if that sounds cliche, it’s not, it’s that I created something that’s giving happiness and joy to someone else. That’s an awesome feeling to me. And so I love that and just, in general, see more people riding in general, this whole bike boom that we have going on, I think is amazing. And yeah, there’s the difficulties with getting stuff. But the amount of people that we brought in or that have joined us, you know, on two wheels is fantastic. And that see more American made bikes out there is just, that’s awesome. Because it just it means we’re employing people here kind of things that we’re creating jobs as an industry, it cuts down a little bit on you know, the carbon neutral. And because we’re able to produce here, we’re not shipping from overseas, per se. I mean, there’s, there’s certain factors that can drive that kind of thing. But it’s also a point of pride. You know, even if it’s another builders by I have certain builders that some guys have car collections, my goal is to have a bike collection kind of thing. Right now it’s all Sage with one other brand, I have one brand as a custom bike. It’s my first custom bike I ever got, I think I was 21. And it was I was 21. And I had to scrap and save for that bike. And so it’s an Ibis Mojo from like 90 to 9192. And it was the I got that bike at steel. And I love that bike, and I swore I’d never sell it. And so that’s the one bike that’s in the garage, that’s like a non Sage like that I swore I’d never sell it, you know, it’s just so that’s my one. So if I can build a collection around that, like a vintage collection kind of thing. So I enjoy seeing other builders and other builder bikes out there, because it’s just, you know, it’s being part of that community kind of thing. And just knowing that I was able to give happiness to somebody else. So it’s super cool. And to see, I get that feeling. I know other builders get that feeling too.

Heather Mason  37:46

It’s a huge thing. And I I’ve been following you on Instagram, sage, titanium, Instagram, it’s pretty cool that the colors, the pictures are drool worthy, and you’re doing a great job with your marketing efforts. And I’m sure you’re just getting more and more people noticing what you’re doing. Are you going to any shows in the fall or next year? Do you have anything plan?

David Rosen  38:05

Yeah, so we actually have the envy builder show coming up in June. So we’re gonna have a very cool bike for that. So we’re kind of, you know, I’m excited for that one. And then we’ll have sea otter will be the other big show for us. So we’ve been doing sea otter for the last five years, I think this will be our fifth year doing it or 60. Or I guess, if you count the virtual edition from last year, but yes, it’ll be our fifth year there. And that’s kind of our big show for the year. Usually we’re launching new product or we’re showing off just some, you know, hot new, you know, we always try and be bring what we call a showstopper bike so well something for that, that usually blows people’s minds kind of thing. So that’s our goal is, you know, get people talking about stage.

Heather Mason  38:47

Looking forward to those shows again, to get back and see everyone right. It’s such an awesome industry to be in the friendships right? I’m sure you’ve met some amazing people.

David Rosen  38:56

Oh, my God, I it’s Dan is a perfect example. You know, Dan is just it’s not just, it’s not just a business relationship. It’s definitely a friendship kind of thing. And it’s, you know, as I said earlier, for me, cycling was always about riding with my friends. You know, as a little kid, you go out and your BMX bike in New York City, you can kind of ride around and do whatever. And that was always fun to me. And so it was always about the friendships and racing was always about developing the friendships and eat me along before I got into the bike industry. It was about traveling the races with your friends, we all crammed into a car, we’d stuffer bikes on the racks on the back, and just for him were out and driving down to West Virginia, or Milan or New Jersey or wherever it was so much fun. And the bike industry is just that it’s just people that are excited about bikes and passionate about it. And when you realize that, you know, we all just love bikes, it’s Yeah, it’s everybody. It’s so easy to become friends. And it’s so easy to make great friendships within the industry. And I think that’s the thing that’s important to make.

Heather Mason  39:59

It totally is. I love what we do. I mean, we’re selling happiness. It’s awesome. Yeah. Okay, any tips for retailers who want to expand into offering titanium bicycles in the retail environment?

David Rosen  40:11

Yeah, it’s about the sales approach itself, it’s you, you need to be able to attract the customer that’s gonna come in that’s looking for, or can go into that higher end price bracket. But what really helps sell titanium bikes in general are, and this is going back to my old retail days, it was always about open ended questions. If the questions you ask, or your sales people are asking, and in either a yes or a no, a single word sentence, you’re not asking the right questions that person can come in. And Hi, how are you doing today? And then, you know, you say, Are you looking for a bike? Yes. You know, are you looking for a road bike? Yes. Or, you know, do you wanted to have this know that you’re just, you’re not really doing enough to engage the customer. And it’s always about, it’s about engaging. And so your questions should be open ended, you want to try and find out as much as you possibly can about what the customer is looking for. And then it’s your job, then to be able to upsell them on this, they may be coming in looking for if you know they’re coming in to look to spend five or $6,000 on a carbon Uber bike, it’s easy to push them into another one or two grand three grand or something like that, then push them into a titanium bike that’s going to last them for years and years and years, and components were out. So you always are going to have that business of replacing components, but they’re going to have a frame they love and they’re going to have a bike that rides great, but it’s about those open ended questions and engaging the customer. And that’s kind of the biggest thing. So if you’re not asking the right questions, you’re never going to be able to sell a titanium bike.

Heather Mason  41:54

Yeah, I inside in suggesting it right. I’m thinking like, you know, a customer comes in, they might they only know what they know, right? And we’re getting customers who are reading online and going into shops. But if you’re qualifying the customer, figuring out where they’re going to use their bike and then offering Okay, well, here’s the free materials that are available to you and including titanium in there. That goes a long way. Are you hearing more and more that consumers are looking for me in the USA? I mean, you’re talking to consumers all the time? are they calling you specifically for that?

David Rosen  42:25

Yeah, they are there specifically part of it is, you know, with the current climate, there are some customers we’re getting, they just can’t find bikes elsewhere. They’re just, you know, the big brands are out. And customers don’t want to wait till 2022 to get a bike. So being able to go for a customer call up and say do you have bikes in stock? Yeah, we’ve got frames. And yeah, we can put something together. And this is our lead time. And it’s you know, I have to a quarter of what you were going to get from X, Y and Z brands, then yeah, those customers are all in on it. And then there are other customers who are specifically looking for Made in USA, they want to support local businesses, I do get that comment a lot, specifically with Pacific Northwest customers that they call up and they go Yep, um, I want to buy you got to know I want to get something locally made, and I want to support local brands. So you know, we get a lot of that too. And there’s definitely, you know, there’s a I guess, you know, a good patriotism, if you will around it for people just wanting to you know, support the local businesses. And so that’s great.

Heather Mason  43:29

Yeah, I remember customers always coming into the shop asking do you carry anything made in the USA? Why didn’t retailers who are listening to the podcast, you have customers coming in definitely a great time to connect with Dave, and see if you had a crystal ball, and you know, do the best you can. But any thoughts on how, you know retailers should pivot to find success in the future, you know, we’re going through a lot right now as supply and I’m sure you’re seeing it from an angle, you know, as a brand. Any tips for retailers right now that would help them to succeed over the next, let’s say six to 12 months,

David Rosen  44:05

I would say be adaptable pivots the right word as you just said, it’s you really need to be able to pivot and adapt to what your customer wants, there are bikes and components out there to be had. It’s just a case of you have to put two and two together to make it and build a bike. And it’s in that case, it’s finding the brands, you know, such as Sage who will help you and work with you to build the bike as fast as possible. It’s more important for me, for a customer to be out riding a bike stage in particular, of course, then to try and you know, squeeze a couple of margin dollars from here and there. Like if all you needed to order from me was a frame for example, because I’ve got frames in stock or you need a frame set. Great. I’m happy with that. And then you want to take the rest of the margin on all the parts because you can get everything else fine. I mean, if I can help If you do that, or if it’s a case of you need, you know, a module, you know, seatpost and a bottom bracket, maybe you need a rear derailleur, whatever it comes down to find more than happy to help. But it’s a case of it’s, that’s where I think we’ve been successful is that we’ve been able to pivot and adapt to what the consumer needs and what the dealer needs. And I think the dealers that are successful are the ones that are, okay, well, we have five brands here in store, and we’re not getting bikes from anybody, and we’ve got customers walking in, we need to start looking elsewhere kind of thing. I just think dealers that are going to succeed are going to be the ones that can look beyond their scope of, yeah, we can bring in a bike or two here or there from this brand or that brand. And who knows, maybe you develop a new relationship with somebody because I can supply bikes. So you know, or at least frames and we can figure out what the rest of its gonna look like together. So

Heather Mason  45:54

yeah, that being said, Heather, you’re gonna love this guy. He’s an amazing person. I think he’s right. And I Ryan Mojo myself, so I’m with you. I mean, no,

David Rosen  46:03

really. Haha. I knew we connected for a reason. I mean, it was just there we go. Excellent.

Heather Mason  46:11

I can’t believe it’s been almost an hour already. Yeah, it does. So I have another question before we go. And I’ve been closing out the podcast recently with this, we rebranded our America’s best bike shop program to be called the bicycle retailer Excellence Awards, right, asking our guests what the term excellence in bicycle retail means to you.

David Rosen  46:35

To me, excellence in bicycle, retail, retail, in general, is the customer leaves satisfied or happy, you know, you can change the words, whichever word you want to use, the customer is not always I’ve worked retail, I worked retail for a long time, a very long time, everything from small boutiques, to large department stores to the corporate side of things as well. And in the stores, we always preach the consumer is always right, or it’s it’s preached out to the customer that the customer is always right. As a former retailer, I don’t think that’s necessarily an accurate statement that the customer is not always right. Because for whatever reason, they may not know what they they may not know what they don’t know, or they may not know, etc. But they’re not always right. But what they should always be, though is happy, they should always leave your store satisfied, they shouldn’t be just because they come in angry. And they come in and say this is broken, or that’s broken, or you gave me bad service, whatever it is. And just because they feel they’re right about it doesn’t mean that they are right, maybe you did the best you could do maybe they broke the piece, and they’re just ashamed to admit it. But no matter what they should always leave your store happy. And because if a customer walks out angry, they’re going to tell all of their friends about it. They haven’t told anybody prior to walking into the store, that they’re unhappy with the shop, maybe they have more than likely they haven’t. But if they walk out on happy, they’re going to tell five people and those five people at spreads kind of thing. But if you can turn them around, and make them walk out happy, do what you need to do to keep them satisfied to keep them as a customer. They’re gonna go out and tell five people like, you know what, you know, Dave was a real jerk. Or, you know, I expected Dave to be a jerk. But he came around and he’s awesome. He totally helped me out with this, that and the other thing and it’s, yeah, I’m shopping there. And I think that’s excellence in retail was making the consumer happy. And it’s it doesn’t mean they’re always right. But they should always leave happy. And so for me, that’s that’s what it’s always about. It’s customer service.

Heather Mason  48:49

I love that excellent. bicycle. Retail is about always making the customer happy no matter what the situation going on. Yeah.

David Rosen  48:56

doesn’t mean they’re right. You know, more often than not, they’re wrong. But that’s not that’s not our job. Our job is to make them happy. And to keep them happy about the experience the products they’re buying, to make them feel like they’re special, and Christmas time and retail. Oh, God, that’s just I think everybody should work it at least once in their life, no matter what even if you’re never going to be in retail. Everybody needs to spend Christmas in a retail store, bike store, department store wherever doesn’t matter. You know, then you kind of have an appreciation for it. But there are people that don’t and so we have to educate them.

Heather Mason  49:34

This is true. Oh my god. This has been awesome to learn about you know about you as a cyclist and former racer, the you know, starting Sage titanium bicycle company based in the USA working with consumers and with retailers to deliver custom bikes and you know, curate experiences for consumers to get into the sport of cycling whether it’s road gravel mountain, cross, which I’m pretty pumped about sitting in prospect. That’s awesome. If people want to know more about Sage titanium, learn about coming, becoming a dealer. Learn more about you. Would you provide some contact information for our listeners to reach out to you?

David Rosen  50:13

Yeah, you can actually reach out to me directly my email is de Rosen at Sage titanium calm. So D is in David rscm at Sage titanium calm or you can go to our website Sage titanium calm, and there’s a contact form on there. And you can just shoot us an email and usually I’m the one responding anyway, but just in case you know if someone else responds, but it’s our general email box, but we usually work weekends and nights and at least I am so I’m you know it Don’t be surprised to get an email back from me at 1130 at night kind of thing. It’s just you know, I’m a night owl is our logo as an owl. And so I’m a night owl if you get the play there, thank you.

Heather Mason  50:55

Like, if you’re a consumer, be sure to head over to the siege titanium comm website. Check out their Instagram feed and their Facebook feed. There’s lots of drool worthy bikes on there definitely gets you excited. American made definitely a story behind the brand. David, thank you so much. You’re You’re awesome. You’re an amazing human Dan was right. Kudos to you. Thank you, Heather. This has been a real pleasure. I appreciate it for sure. So that is it. I invite you to connect with me and come on bicycle retail radio, share your story with our listeners. I invite you to contribute to our outspoken blog and become a feature on our member spotlight or even lead a webinar. Lots of love for the industry. If you’d like to support the show. Don’t forget to subscribe. Share your favorite episode with your friends and on social media. Thank you for listening. See you back here soon. And with us we go.

NBDA   51:46

This has been bicycle retail radio by the National bicycle Dealers Association. For more information on membership and member benefits, join us@nbda.com