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The Importance of Your Retail Reputation

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This episode’s guest is Albert Cabbad, owner of R&A Cycles. R&A has 2 locations offering cutting-edge inventory. Al has over 30 years’ knowledge of cycling and fitting and believes only in advertising products that R&A Cycles has physically in store. Al is leading out retail with an honest reputation and an immense desire to fulfill all of their customer’s needs.

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The Importance of Your Retail Reputation

Tue, 5/11

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

bike, industry, retailers, customer, people, business, bike shop, R&A, bicycle, consumer, walnut creek, year, new york, cyclists, location, manufacturers, sell, employees, deal, cycles

SPEAKERS

Heather Mason, NBDA , Al Cabbad

NBDA   00:10

You are listening to bicycle retail radio brought to you by the National bicycle Dealers Association.

Heather Mason  00:16

Welcome to another episode of bicycle retail radio, brought to you by the NBDA. Thank you for listening. We’re happy you’re here. If you’re a first time listener, be sure to check out the previous episodes. Do us a favor and leave a review. It helps members of our industry find our podcast. As always, the NBDA is thankful for our donors and association members. If you’d like to make a donation to the show, or become an NBDA member, you can do so directly on our web page. A special thanks to bike exchange for their continued support of NBDA. May is National Bike Month and bike exchange is supporting retailers nationwide. With over 400 retailers working with bike exchange, they are the nation’s largest marketplace. with the aim of virtually connecting online customers back to retail shops. You can learn more at bikeexchange.com/ Today’s guest is Al Cabbad, CEO of R&A cycles with locations in Brooklyn, New York and Walnut Creek California. R&A cycles is the distinctive leader in the bicycle industry. They offer the most cutting edge inventory stop super deep, and they have over 30 years knowledge of cycling and fitting R&A cycles believes only in advertising products they actually physically have in store. They are leading out retail with an immense desire to fulfill all of their customers needs single handedly. key takeaways from today’s episode, learn insights from the shift in the bicycle industry. Focus on ending discounting and building profitability. And not more shops, just better shops. So without further ado, I welcome out to the show. How are you?

Al Cabbad  01:50

Good, good, how you doing?

Heather Mason  01:52

Oh, my gosh, I’m great. Thank you for coming on today, I background for our listeners, I had the chance to work with Al as his account manager for Bianchi last year. And him and I were just continually emailing back and forth and texting each other. And it’s awesome to have the chance to connect with you out. We were talking earlier just about this past year, and even how you’re doing like just today. And you were like oh my god, it’s a constant battle, right?

Al Cabbad  02:18

Yeah. Now, first of all, thanks for having me. Always nice to talk to you and work with you no matter what the capacity is. But yeah, it’s a constant battle. I mean, anyone who’s not dealing with it is definitely not selling bikes right now. You know, they’re definitely outside the industry. But I hear other industries are having the same sufferings and, and pain with the supply chain. You know, you just got to take it day by day, you know, one day, you’re gonna be happy as heck, the next day, you’re going to be stressed, and the next day, you might want to change your career. But you got to keep on trucking and make things happen. You know?

Heather Mason  02:49

Yeah, roll with the punches. And I, I there’s so much I want to chat with you about because you recently opened up another location in California. And I would say this is in the midst of everything, this passion. When did that location open now.

Al Cabbad  03:01

So we opened our official grand opening date was March 6 of 2020 10 days before Contra Costa closed down in North North kalsa.

Heather Mason  03:11

I can’t even imagine. So I have so much. I just want to talk to you about that. But when I was prepping for the conversation today, I was on your website, and I was just googling you and locations, I realized there was so much that I don’t know about the history of R&A cycles. And I was just hopefully you can just give us a little dive into the history of the shop was that your dad that started it?

Al Cabbad  03:31

Yes, my father is the founder of R&A cycles. He found that R&A cycles in 1976 he was the pioneer of what we are today and how I learned and do business today. You know, always being different, always trying to do our own thing. If you don’t stock it, you can sell it mentality, customer service at the top in the forefront of everything we do. He’s still selling on the floor. So he’s Yeah, he’s taken a very upfront approach to business, he always has been there’s nothing that’s going to change him. So a lot of customers get to deal with him on a daily basis, which is kind of cool.

Heather Mason  04:07

That’s so cool. So you work with him day in and day out. And still

Al Cabbad  04:11

Yes, many people who get into the family business don’t survive, but we did pretty well together. So

Heather Mason  04:17

was your father a cyclist? What made him want to open up a bike shop, you know,

Al Cabbad  04:21

he had passion for it for sure. But he also you know, he’s a businessman. He was able to utilize both and make R&A succeed. Understanding how to please consumers and and how to make things happen was one of the biggest assets that he had for himself used to cycle pretty avidly but like anybody that does a lot for the business that we work in, you know, the industry requires a lot of time from upper management. And eventually it ebbs and flows to less and less riding. But he does not anymore but he did have a good career in cycling. So

Heather Mason  04:59

I cannot Imagine growing up in the shop with him. And then you know, now yourself, you’ve taken it over, I talked to anyone about R&A cycles. And before I even really got into the industry myself, I knew R&A cycles as the shop where you could find everything. It seems like you always had those hard to find frames and parts. And he asked anyone can I do you know, where I can get this? Like, I’ll check R&A, you call the guys over R&A? So was that always part of the business strategy to stock so deep in those hard to find parts? Absolutely. I

Al Cabbad  05:29

mean, if you don’t have it, you can sell it, it’s that simple. You know, I’m, it’s not an easy thing, either. It took us, you know, the first 20 years of our business to be able to have that stock, you know, it wasn’t just, oh, you know, here’s some money, and let’s buy the stock, because you need to produce the money, you know, in our industry is one of those industries that you need four times the money and the cash flow, just to have one time the profitability from it, and what we’ve built to, you know, 2030 years just to get where we were as to be known as that. And today, you know, we just were riding that model that history, and that’s what helps us, you know,

Heather Mason  06:08

it’s a big thing, and I were chatting, when was it? I don’t know, maybe six months ago or a little bit more, you and I had helped a client, you know, find a bike that was super hard to find it might have been last summer, but you were resourceful. And you had the inventory. And it was amazing to work with you on that regard. So I’m wondering, how are you in the same building that you started in? Originally, I’m thinking like, Where are you keeping all this inventory.

Al Cabbad  06:30

So the retail store is in the original location, it’s been remodeled and altered many times by me. And we opened up a massive fulfillment center slash R&A block slash a lot of other things were kind of like the Barclay center, we modulate everything, actually nearby three blocks away. And we have roughly 15,000 square feet of just ground square footage. And that doesn’t include volume, total volume of storage is because we have a very tall ceilings is around 24,000 square feet. So nearby very nearby, we have a very beautiful building that we completed in 2014 or 15. I want to say,

Heather Mason  07:08

I need to get because you’re not that far from me. I need to stop down. We’ve been saying this.

Al Cabbad  07:13

Yeah, no, you got to come. I mean, this is like my second home. So a lot of people don’t really realize how vested we are in the industry until they come and see this facility.

Heather Mason  07:23

So your brick and mortar location, your actual storefront is in the same spot that it was. So you did you start out always with online sales. I don’t think online sales were really a thing back in the 80s. Right. But you were like one of the leaders, right in the industry kind of getting this movement started.

Al Cabbad  07:38

Yeah. So in 1982, we actually started following mail order. So at that time, you would call from a catalog, in our case, print advertisements. And there was actually very few people doing that period, you know, b&h photo, some of the other, you know, niche brands were doing that. Not the big box guys never did that. So it was all the niche companies and we were one of them. So in 1982, you know, we did that. And we were taking phone calls from all over the planet pretty much and fulfilling specialty items around 94. My old man, Phil, he I shouldn’t say that my old man Phil. Hopefully he’s not listening. But my pops. He started one of the first websites online, it wasn’t an add to cart, it was just a typical catalog page. And that was in 1994 before many people were even online. And that spawned a whole new level of business. When I came on board in the late 90s, I would say I was going to pioneer the add to cart and for us and really modernized the technology to what you see today. We’re just always changing. We’re always moving with what’s hot, what’s new, and trying to be ahead of it, you know, for us, you know, for us and for our clients.

Heather Mason  08:52

Yeah, I imagine that being ahead of it is really this past year, online sales just really blew up, right. And I noticed that the traffic I talked to everyone, there’s a huge increase in online sales. But it does seem like you’ve always stayed ahead of even when I was working with you, it was like what’s coming down the pipeline, like what’s the new products gonna be in and you were ready for it. And always acting quickly, which I think is a really key part for retailers these days is the ability to act quick if you can, financially. Yeah, so you spend most of your time at the fulfillment center then or do you still work on the sales floor as well.

Al Cabbad  09:25

So I’m traveling a lot these days on between both locations quite often not as often as I’d like to be but it will ramp up at the moment with restrictions lowering and stuff like that. But I am in the head office more than I would like to be just because there’s a lot of moving pieces in the business. My ideal scenario is to be working with consumers face to face two or three times a week in my perfect world. But unfortunately it’s hard to do that. So a lot of customers do deal with me though a lot of in store and online customers. They come across me to some degree because I do oversee all Every bike sale that’s in this business, because people come to me for whether it’s product knowledge, or information or fit knowledge, or whatever the case is, I always like my dad, I want to make sure I’m always involved. I’m not that guy that’s looking down on everybody I try to be. I’m a round table kind of guy. We all sit at the round table. And I want consumers to have that from me, you know that involvement?

Heather Mason  10:24

So thinking about what you’re saying about being out there working with consumers, and I know this because consumers have reached out to me like, Oh, I talked to Al, you know, I know, I know that they’re working with them. Is there anything that your dad, you know, that he taught you, that you stuck with you or resonated with you that you think is a great tip for retailers in the bicycle industry?

Al Cabbad  10:44

Absolutely. Two things actually. Number one is, give people what they want, even if you don’t have it, don’t bait and switch, don’t try to switch them to something that they don’t want. Because they’ll never return. You know, I’m a consumer like that, right? If I go in for this thing, and somebody convinces me to get something else, the whole time, I’m using that something else. I’m thinking of my life with the other thing. And if I can’t get it, I’ll tell the customer, I can’t get it. If it’s a long way, I’ll tell the customers a long way. And they usually accept you know, our industry focuses on that dollar so much that they do sell people things they don’t want often. And it’s okay. It’s it’s a business decision for people. And me, I I’d rather not lie or dissuade somebody into what they truly want. Because our sports very emotional, you know, and it’s an aesthetic thing to you know, like, I love the way this bike looks okay, it might not suit me, but let’s see how we can make it suit you. For me. Not everybody’s racing. Most people aren’t, and not everybody really cares. You know, why do people buy Ferraris, it just makes them feel good. It doesn’t make any sense in most cities like New York, but it makes people feel good, you know, your Porsche 911 turbo, that’s like my dream car. So if I want one, it makes no sense for me practically, with three kids or anything, but one day, I’m gonna have it. And why because it’s something that I want, you know, and the same thing with biking. You know, a lot of bikes don’t make sense for people. But that doesn’t make it wrong for them, they’ve got to fulfill their desire and figure it out, you know,

Heather Mason  12:21

I totally connect with what you’re saying, I love that, right, you end up, you go in wanting something and you get talked into something else, and then you’re riding it, and you’re still thinking about that bike that you so wanted, that you didn’t get. But it’s true also, with like, the wheel upgrade, right? If you, you know, you don’t really need the wheel upgrade. But if you start talking about it, and then you know, next thing, you know, you get the wheel upgrade. It’s like, I’m so happy.

Al Cabbad  12:44

Yeah. 100%. And, you know, in respect to that, like, I have, like, I don’t sell some of the big commercial brands. And I don’t call my friend, you know, x, you know, we’ll just use special as an example, I don’t call my friend who sell specialize and say, can you sell me this, so I can make some money. And you know, I refer them, I refer them I say, Hey, listen, you know, john will help you out here. And then I know that he’s gonna tell john that Al sent me or R&A sent me and then John’s gonna, you know, if he wants to pinarello he’s gonna send them back to me. That’s how we grow together, instead of just trying to make a buck. And in the end, the customers taken care of, and he’s got no ill will towards anybody. And he becomes a new customer, no matter what, whether it’s service or something else later. And my father taught me that without a doubt, you know, that was the number one thing. Second to that would be respecting your value. You know, don’t just discount something because somebody asked for it, you know, don’t undervalue your service, right. And R&A is not the cheapest place we’re not. We don’t rip anybody off, we charge regular price. If anybody tells you, R&A has given me a better price, it’s not true, unless you’re charging over retail. And he taught me that, you know, we’re R&A, like we give people the proper service, but not just for the bike after the bike sale. And those things together is basically R&A, like, you know, give people what they want. Give them the best service and don’t undervalue yourself. So

Heather Mason  14:18

I feel like what you’re saying it’s just being a really great human and it’s your reputation at the end of the day, right? And the reputation that already has is fantastic. And that’s what you build business on. You’re creating cyclists for life and customers for life, even if they’re buying this one bite from you or not, right, because you genuinely care about them.

Al Cabbad  14:35

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Heather Mason  14:37

So was your dad involved with the expansion to California? How did this come about? I didn’t even know I was working with you at the time and I don’t think I even knew.

Al Cabbad  14:44

So my pops. He kind of lets me take the rains at this point. He’s watching me always he’s looking out for me. That was all me the expansion was my concept. You know, I’m in my late 30s. So I still have the juice left in me to take us to the next level. He’s in his late 60s. So he’s just, he’s comfortable. He’s doing what he’s doing. Everything’s important to him, but expanding is not his prerogative, right. So he supported me gave me his opinions, he helped me establish the basis and, and helped me get the thing going and funded through headquarters. But for the most part, the whole concept is, is my vision of the future for us. R&A Walnut Creek was supposed to be New York first. But the cost of doing that in New York was just unreal at the time. So I said, Well, you know, we have so many customers in the area, this is what we want to do. And, and I have the right person in place who’s been with us for 20 years. And it all just came together pretty quickly. And it’s kind of scattered out quickly, actually. But I don’t regret a moment.

Heather Mason  15:47

So I’m sorry for my ignorance here. But how does the Walnut Creek store differ? You said that, you know, was it the expansion that was supposed to be in New York or the build out? Or what could you guess in New York,

Al Cabbad  15:58

so we actually have renderings of a massive renovation project in New York, that would have cost a lot of money that we were supposed to do in 2015. But then the industry kind of took a nosedive. So we pulled back from that expansion, which would have added another 7000 square feet to the existing New York location. And when push came to shove, I said, I’m not spending this money in New York right now, because the store is fine, the store is great. It’s just a little, little claustrophobic, you know, for what we carry. It’s a big store compared to many. But you know, we need 10,000 plus square feet for our representation. So Walnut Creek is 11,000 square feet, not including the outdoor space and parking. And it has a you know, a restaurant inside coffee, beer, wine and all that, which is about 1000 square feet of the 11. So we’re solid 10,000 square feet 18 foot ceilings, like it’s what New York deserves. And it’s what we’re going to, at some point have, but doing that in Walnut Creek made more sense than trying to reinvent the wheel in New York. And the concept of Walnut Creek is very brand focused, you know, it’s about R&A and what we mean. But it’s also about telling a story for each brand and creating an experience for each client. So and then the restaurant, the restaurants, I just feel like the best part of our industry is the camaraderie, the social aspect of it. So I want to push that as much as possible. So that consumers have that experience of I have a place to end my ride, I have a place to start my ride. I got places to ride and people to talk to and, and hang out like, as a business man, it sucks to have a customer pick your brain for an hour. Right? But I love it at the same time because it means that they care and they want to be involved. And there’s that social aspect of it. You know, and and that’s what Walnut Creek about, you know,

Heather Mason  17:51

sounds like it’s definitely a destination place. I think next time we do this, we’ll have to do it in person in Walnut Creek. I don’t know if you get out there much yourself. But

Al Cabbad  17:59

yeah, definitely. I’m here once a month. So anytime.

Heather Mason  18:03

So how was that though, being involved in setting up a new location, a second location Have you taken on a project like this before?

Al Cabbad  18:10

I’ve done development projects before, like with our facility downtown fulfillment center, I’ve also done other developments that are non bike related. So in terms of construction and development, and, and knowing what to do and how to do it, I’ve done before, I also learned to hire the right people. You know, the team that I hired is was phenomenal for the construction and the retail design. I hired a you know, a professional retail design company to help me create my vision, it would have taken me a month it took a week, let’s say hypothetically, right. And it just it allows, you know, I can do everything in all honesty, I can literally do everything. You have to at some point say to yourself, what’s worth delegating out so that I could focus on something else. And I learned the hard way with the fulfillment center project trying to do everything myself, I learned the hard way, it was a very tough situation. And with this project, I did it the right way I feel and delegating the right job to the right people so

Heather Mason  19:08

so we often get questions from our members that come in asking about adding a coffee shop or a restaurant or a brewery to their existing bicycle retail store. Now I know this past year with COVID maybe you had to alter some of your operations, but any feedback on you know having a location that does have a restaurant and coffee shop included guys for retailers first and foremost,

Al Cabbad  19:27

it’s not worth it if it’s going to take away from inventory. Right? If you have the space great outside of inventory, people come for bikes, you know and they come for that if you’re gonna have like our restaurants pretty sizable and some legitimate like coffee shop right with food and, and really cool stuff. But it’s extra, like it was a big piece of the initial scope of the project. So I mean it was a small piece of the actual square footage and space that for sure. Don’t take away from what you make money on for Creating this potential, that doesn’t necessarily mean anything to the person who wants to buy a bike, right? You create that for me having 20 bikes in a space that you could sell 20 bikes in versus coffee, I recommend to stick to the bikes, right secondary to that, don’t do it yourself, you know. So I’m the curator of the restaurant, it’s my restaurant, I’m curating the menu, from my family’s history and what I love and what I think cyclists would love, but I have somebody to operate it as its own entity. And the reason why is because I need to focus on bikes, that’s my job. The second, I have to worry about what type of coffee to sell, or what beer to select for the week, or, you know, it just takes away from the importance of what I do. So I recommend too many, if they have the opportunity to partner with somebody, and make that the concept, whether it’s next door in the building or not. And try not to take away from what you really intended. You know, I know a few coffee shops slash bike shops that ended up turning into one or the other after a year because you got to stay focused. And if we take it back, and kind of change the topic a little bit, if you take it back to when the big thing was bike shop slash Performance Center, right? Most of those guys went out of business or closed because it wasn’t working. And the reason why is they were focusing on two different channels. And in our industry, biking alone is enough. It’s a lot. It’s super technical, a lot to deal with. There’s a lot of moving pieces. Now you split that in half to go do performance training or restaurant coffee. What do you want to do? Right? What do you want to focus on? So my advice is to partner with somebody who can create the experience for you without it taken away from what you do best?

Heather Mason  21:46

Yeah, focus on the bike shop. Right. I love that feedback. Okay, so let’s flip to your employees. Because you mentioned when you’re talking about the California location, Walnut Creek, that you had this one employee who was a 20 year veteran working with you and was really a great part in making it possible. And I know from dealing with you and your employees as well, they’re awesome people, how are you finding employees? And that seems to be a big topic that we’re hearing right now, how we keep employees and how we find good ones, any success things along the way that you could share with us.

Al Cabbad  22:17

I said, I’m in the same boat as everybody else where I can’t find the employees I want right now. And I honestly think it’s our own fault. I think, you know, I mentioned before, off this podcast that our industry has been D legitimized in so many different ways. And one of them is within our own employees, right? There’s so many assumptions in the industry that for me don’t exist, they still exist. But for me don’t exist. So my guy in California, who’s the VP of that stores is Troy Morgan. He’s been with me for 20 plus years, and him and I just were like, brothers, you know, it’s a trust thing. And I trust him, and he trusts me. And in all reality, you know, I could be a pessimist and worry about what he’s doing this moment. But then where am I in life, right? So being able to detach myself and just trust, and trust the right people don’t just trust anybody, but he’s somebody I could trust, and empowering him to do what he needs to do to make this work for me and my vision and our company. See, he’s part of our company, it’s our company. And that whole mentality, you know, like, not treating our staff like pawns and just trying to respect them, and have them push the company forward for the same goal. Right. And, you know, our industry hires a lot of part time people because it’s cyclical, and that’s okay. And it does this, and it does that, you know, where staff isn’t respected those the same way, and so on. It also boils down to the consumer, like, it’s not just the employers, right? It’s, and our industry has been beaten down every year after year after year. And this is the year that like, Well, last year was the year that like, everyone’s, like, I’m out, you know, and a lot of people are out for multiple reasons. But the employees are out for multiple reasons, you know, and the staff I have now like in New York, I don’t have enough staff, I can’t find it. And we’re in New York with you know, quote, unquote, you know, 20% unemployment or whatever you want to call it right now. But nobody wants to work in a bike shop the way they used to. And at the same time in Walnut Creek, it took me a year to get to today’s employment rate, and I’m still looking, I’m also very different than many others out there. I won’t take a regular person, my customer deserves more. Because we’re at a higher, you know, technical level, like we’re selling most of our bikes, our average bikes are three to $5,000, you know, and then we have our bikes that go all the way up and we do sell everything under but our focus is that core affluent cyclists, right, are turning people into that. So we have to hire much more technical staff. And it’s picky but it’s difficult at the same time. It shouldn’t be as difficult but it

Heather Mason  25:00

Yeah, I know there’s a lot of organizations right now working to bring or to create qualified, you know, people to enter our workforce to enter our industry. And I think you touched on a strong one, it’s creating opportunities for lifetime employment, you know, not just a seasonal position or, you know, giving people opportunity to grow and feel like they’re part of something. So I applaud you for that. But yeah, this is a challenging time for our industry, as we’re busier than ever and looking for these qualified individuals. It’s almost like we’re, we’re just behind, we haven’t caught up yet. But hopefully, this will set us up to put these programs and incentives in place for the future. So we do have a bigger pool to choose from. But thinking about this past year, very unprecedented times there is there any ways that you pivoted your operations to kind of you know, keep up or meet customers where they are now, so that you can share, I don’t want to give away all your secrets?

Al Cabbad  25:51

Well, last year, I tried to pull out my crystal ball and make predictions, and none of them really worked. But I did well, for us, it’s not easy for many retailers, you know, like, I can put in massive pios. And I’m fine. And to be honest with you, I also know what’s reasonable, right? Like, I can easily quadruple my purchase orders with anybody. And I also know what’s reasonable of what I’m going to receive. So you know, being practical, but also at the same time being diverse is important. Many retailers just don’t have that they don’t have the ability, you know, whether they’re one bike shop, one bike brand dealer, even up to four, you know, like, I have 15, so it’s easy for me to spread things out. I’m definitely like, quadruple down in anyway, and just, you know, whatever sticks, sticks, but all I can say is make your moves now, because we’re not out of it. Like it’s this is a two year more, we’re gonna be in this for two more years. And it’s a good thing. You know, it’s a good not for everybody. But it’s a good thing. Because I think industry as a whole needed a correction. And it’s, you know, our silver lining is we survive gold as an industry, right? But here’s the negative, okay, big deal. We survived COVID, we could have easily were so cyclical, we could have easily went out of business, all of us. Right, but the silver lining was people seek us for their emotional support during this crisis. So now what do we do? Well, I have no product to sell, I have to create a better experience, I have to find within myself how to make people spend money here, I think it’s a massive opportunity for the historical businesses that have done well and that have a head on their shoulders to do well. And the correction is, in all reality, like, I don’t mean to be disrespectful to anybody, and I hope nobody tanks it this way. But there was no barriers of entry for anybody, which in all, honesty is a big problem. I think not anybody should be a bi guy, you know, there’s a lot of technical aspects that make us legitimate and, and there was years where any brand would open up anybody, and they would do anything. And it was just like, you know, it’s not a pizzeria, where you could just make a different type of pizza that bikes a bike, and it’s very technical. So the barrier of entry needs to be there. And not to limit people. But there should be some type of level of qualifications. I mean, this is not like, you can get a guy or girl who’s riding a bike at 40 miles an hour down a hill, and somebody didn’t put it together correctly. You know, there’s some serious thinking that needs to happen. And I think the manufacturers are starting to do that, you know, I just hope they stay that way. And then the other side of it is, you know, that whole hobbyist business mentality, like, I’m a biker, and I have a hobby, and I wanted to sell bikes. But it’s not that easy. You know, it’s this is a very complex industry, it’s, and this is from the mom and pop, kid by to urban by retailer to the highly technical R&A cycles, like, it’s complex, and it shouldn’t be treated like a hobby, you know, it is a hobby, and that’s the beauty of our industry is we’re lucky to enjoy what we do and have a fun sport to do it with. But we just need to respect the technical side of it, you know, and focus on that.

Heather Mason  29:18

Yeah, I’m just thinking as you’re talking, and maybe this is going to come across wrong, too. But this is truly a time for bicycle retailers to be excellent. You know, I feel like when we have inventory, or we have a store full of inventory, it’s easy to turn on the open side, and people come in and you sell bikes, right? But we’re at a time now where we don’t have that liberty. So how are we going to keep our business open? We’re going to be amazing business people, and we’re going to be creative, and we’re going to be eager to learn and eager to engage with our suppliers and just coming at it from every different angle. How can I be creative right now to make extra revenue right like this is a time to truly be phenomenal.

NBDA   29:57

You have an excellent business. Let your Industry recognized you apply now for the 2021 bicycle retailer excellence awards to have a chance to have your shop recognized for your retailer excellence, customer experience and commitment to our industry. The 2021 bicycle retailer excellence application requires no payment or membership, and is available on the NBDA website until May 31. Learn more at nbda.com/brea, that’s nbda.com slash b r e a.

Heather Mason  30:40

Are you the only buyer because I know you used to do most of the ordering with me? Do you have your hands? Like are you overseeing all of the buying for both locations? Or

Al Cabbad  30:47

Yes, so I handle all the movement here. So buying is part of the movement. So anything that a customer deals with any purchases, any preseason, any postseason, any inventory between locations, warehouse, when the marketing initiatives are all based on that, which is my core skill set. So it doesn’t make sense for me to outsource the buying because of that. So anything that involves movement is pretty much a logistics movement product. So yeah,

Heather Mason  31:18

I feel like you and I had a pretty close relationship. I mean, we were texting when inventory came in, I was looking out for you. Is that something that you have with all of your suppliers? And do you advocate that retailers do that just so they’re, you know, a little bit more up to speed on what’s actually happening? Well, Heather, there’s

Al Cabbad  31:33

very few people like yourself, I can’t say that I’m like that with everybody. But I have automated my communication with everybody I come up with my own version of how to do is I mean, I deal with roughly 90 manufacturers or distributors, or whatever want to call them. And there’s a method to each one. But I do have a great relationship with everybody. And they all know the way I work. Like when somebody first comes in, like the person who replaced you or anybody who’s new to me, I’m a shock and awe for them. Because they’re not used to me. I’m a New Yorker, so I’ll never sugarcoat anything. I’m very nice. And I’m just like, Hey, this is how I do business. You got to work with me. And we’ll both be happy. And you took that out right away. So that’s why we get such a good relationship. But for the most part, yeah, I mean, I, I’m a cool guy, you know, like, I just I tried to be, you know, we’re all in the same boat here, for example, right? You know, don’t get mad at somebody because they can produce because it’s probably not their fault. And I deal with my consumers the same way, right? We’re all people, we all need to respect each other. And we all need to forge relationships. You know, like right now. Um, I have this funny joke that goes around, and I’m just like, Hey, guys, who do I have to grease? You know, going to the all new york Like, who do I gotta grease to get my bikes over here? And every so often I get an email. Y’all do this? Just like, oh, wow, at least a little Whole New York is in play. And I’m being playful. I’m not literally doing that. Because there’s limitations right now. But it’s, you gotta Yeah, you gotta you have to you have to because we’re all screwed, you know, in a good way. Like, we’re all like, in this crazy. Yeah, you know, and trust me, I’m not the only one getting 20 emails a day about what’s my eta after you just got the same 20 last week, you know, it’s, we’re all doing it the guys at the customer support at the manufacturer level us at the retail level, the service department with you know, when’s my bike gonna be ready, like everyone is experiencing the same thing. So we just have to be polite with each other and try to enjoy it as much as we can.

Heather Mason  33:46

I totally agree with you keep an eye send emails out every Wednesday to our membership base. And I usually try to keep them light and happy. And you know, I always get emails back once in a while that are like, could you not be such a hard time and I’m like, I know, but I’m not gonna focus on that today.

Al Cabbad  34:02

If everything is gonna be negative, then there’s no point, right? Like, it just you have to lighten up, everyone has to lighten up, it’s not easy. Even for us. I know, we’re at the, we’re doing well, and we’re pretty large and all that. But it’s not easy for us either like, but if I’m gonna go in the corner and cry about it, I’m just gonna get nowhere, you know. So you just got to make something of what you got and try to live life and not create a heart attack for yourself. So.

Heather Mason  34:27

So I think one of the first conversations that I had with one of your staff members, do you have the live chat function on your website, or you have some sort of function, right? Yeah. So I was just visiting your website and someone started chatting with me and I was like, Oh, I’m your newbie, I chatted back. I was like, Oh, your new Bianchi Rep. And then next thing you know, your employee was reaching out to me for product education and training. And you touched on the education piece just a couple minutes ago on you know how you really need to be knowledgeable on your products. And I know this from you too, because we were launching a new gravel bike and you picked out specs right away and you And I didn’t even have the answers. I was like, I don’t know, I gotta find out. But how are you training your employees this past year? Maybe not seeing reps as often? How are you making sure your employees are knowledgeable and experts on the products that you sell.

Al Cabbad  35:14

So my, it’s hard for me to sit with everybody and train them. So what I do is I entice them to reach out to the reps and, and learn about the info. But more importantly, when a product is new, we try to launch it through marketing. And we tell our people to make sure you pay attention to our marketing and what we’re telling consumers, because then that’s going to help you get answers. At the same time we look to leadership, you know, our general manager in Walnut Creek and our lead manager here. Phil’s the general manager in New York, by the way, so our lead tech here in New York, we look to them to be responsible enough to be interested, and they are interested people in the industry and what what comes through the pipeline. So you know, hiring that person who loves what they do, and, and making sure that they are capable of teaching themselves. And that’s the best way and then we market and make sure that they’re on those channels and stuff. I personally wish I did a better job educating in terms of, Hey, guys, this is how I trade this is what trails about and mountain bike and so on. And I don’t I try every time I try and fail because it’s just so much. So training your people to learn how to teach themselves through the community we have internally is the most important thing. Like brand new bike comes in, oh, this you know, Yeti is a new brand we carry and the new bike just pops in a brand new model like yeah, we understand malbaie understand this, and maybe we understand Yeti as a brand. But once that bike shows up, right, besides the marketing that you saw that we did, what are you doing as a seller as a person who represents us, and you have to go and analyze that like we tell them like you need to learn this stuff because it’s with us, you’re not going to get one person coming through the door in a month for that you’re going to get like 10 a day, like, Hey, what’s going on with this or it’s part of your, okay, you’re selling a certain bike, well, this is this this is that like, so they know to train themselves, because it’s not like on our end, there’s tons of requests, information, whether it’s web or not, it all falls through all the same channels.

Heather Mason  37:21

So sounds like what you’re saying is all connected. And I love that. So you’re pushing this new item out in your marketing feeds, your consumers are seeing it who are probably customers for years, because the business has been around for so long. And they’re like, Oh my god, new mountain bike, gotta go gotta call gotta see what’s happening. And then they’re coming in, and they’re meeting with your staff who hopefully saw the same release and is up to speed on it as well. Okay, let’s talk about something we taught you. I think you emailed me about this. And I know that your feelings are pretty much against the bro deals and VIP discounts right in our industry is so well known for this in the past, although I feel like now we’re finally getting past this, I see some shops even able to add like build fees on right now above MSRP. Because of the inventory issues, we’re having any insights about how we can move away from the bro deal VIP discount? And you just thoughts? You want to talk about that for a minute with me.

Al Cabbad  38:16

So this boils down to the manufacturer and retailers. Right. So there’s two phases of this. I mean, there are quote unquote ambassadors in the industry who aren’t even retailers that are creating broad deals for people. And it undercuts a lot of the retailers. Just FYI, I don’t deal with those manufacturers, if I find out there’s a brand deal going on in this is Ambassador doing this or that I just don’t deal with them. I’m not here to support and promote a brand who’s just gonna undercut me through an ambassador who is not supporting the brand the proper way. Right. And the manufacturer needs to stop that, you know, I understand there’s laws and you can do this, and you can do that. But there’s ways to do it. There’s proper and formal ways to do that. You know, and this happens a lot with the I emos, you know, the internet mail order guys, right? I’m not that guy. And if you ever hear that, I’m that guy. It’s wrong. But there’s a lot of internet guys out there. And by the way, when I say guys, that’s plural, that’s, you know, I’ve gotten heat for that, but that’s a Brooklyn thing. We just everyone, my daughters are my guy, you know, like, there’s retailers out there that do internet business, and they’re known for discount, and they’re not blatantly discounting. They’re hiding the prices and doing all this stuff. And the manufacturer does nothing, right. But I can literally detail it out in math and say, How are they coming up with this price? Like this is impossible. Without discounting your product? Yeah, they have map protection, all that but when it’s bundled, they don’t do anything. So the manufacturers a very big part of this, right? When it’s blatant and ridiculous and needs to be cut out. Right? What a retailer does in the front door is a different story. like nobody knows about it or anything, but they have to be careful also. Because it goes back to me saying don’t undervalue yourself, right, I get that you have VIP customers, right? But they need to understand the amount of time and effort you put into this and how you’re going to stay open? How are you going to stay up? And how are you going to grow to better serve them, you have to charge them the right price, you know, and that’s the manufacturer side. Now the retailer side is enough with competing with your local competition, right? Stop trying to compete with the internet guys, right? Start thinking about expressing to your consumer, why they should be buying from you, even if it’s $100. More. And that’s what I do, it works every time. Why because I’m going to give you the best service. In the end, the customer wants the best service 1% doesn’t, maybe 10% doesn’t care, they just want the cheapest price. But you know what, you don’t want that customer, you don’t want that customer cuz he’s just going to shop around and do all that stuff. And that’s the customer who gives you the most static. So the best thing to do is hold your price holds your value. And eventually the local guy who’s competing with you will do the same thing, the other local retailer will do the same thing, and so on and so forth and so on. And we need to just stop, we need to stop. If that consumer is walking in my door, he’s my customer, it’s my opportunity, my job to show him the best experience and service so that he buys from me right now, if he or she goes elsewhere, because I didn’t give them the best service, then there’s a reason for it. And I need to look inside myself and say, Alright, I didn’t do her or him, right. So that’s why I lost. Because in reality, when you give the best service, you will get the customer, there’s no question about it, you know, I get that there’s the sales tax implication, there’s this and that, when you’re a retailer, you have the opportunity to make that non existent, make that topic non existent by using the right words. And that’s what R&A does. So R&A is actually the silver lining. And all this is, you know, we didn’t have to we removed our price match guarantee, which was forced on us by other internet retailers, who just dumped everything and manufacturers didn’t control. And you know, at the consumer level, there’s no need to discount right now because the supply is so bad. So we don’t discount $1. And I want that to stay like when when this supply chain issue is better. I want it to stay, I want it to stay across the board. I want everybody who’s in this with me to make money and to enjoy things and to start growing our own businesses. But the reason why our industry is hard is in its it’s very small in reality is because we discount too much. And it needs to stop.

Heather Mason  42:44

Yeah, we should not close on cost anymore. It should not come down to that. And you just I got goosebumps when you were talking because you’re so right. If we’re doing it properly, if we’re giving the best customer service, we’re going to get that customer because people want to spend money, where they feel good about it. And they can tell their friend a story, the guy that we connected with and help his wife on their anniversary, you I’m sure you still tell them people what a great job. And that was just we just called and we just cared. You know, where are we to reach out and follow up with him. So I think you’re so right about that. And it’s not about the number right now bike shops are popping up daily. I’m getting, you know, we’re getting thankfully, thank you for joining the national bicycle legislation. We’re getting new bicycle shops that are popping up that are joining our association. And yeah, we don’t I mean, sure, welcome to the industry. But we need excellent retailers, right. We need excellent retailers who are truly invested on creating and curating amazing customer experiences. So we keep these new cyclists engage. Another question I just thought of Is there anything that you’re doing locally to? I don’t know, connect with your community? or reach out? Are you noticing new customers coming in, you know, that are maybe local that never were cyclists before?

Al Cabbad  43:55

Yeah, in all honesty, we’re at capacity like we don’t, we can’t, we don’t have enough employees to do the outreach that we normally do the experience events, plus some of them are frowned upon. So because of the COVID situation, so we didn’t do anything. But the thing we’re doing is we’re just communicating when they come to us, we communicate with them properly, whether it’s phone, live chat, email, or in store. And, you know, they all know us were here since 1976. Everybody knows who we are in New York. And a lot of them are coming back because they’re coming back to the sport. You know, the last five years, nationwide have been busy years for everybody the last 10 years actually. And I think it hurt our industry, but the cost of things outside of cycling have gone up substantially in the last 10 years. And a lot of those, I want you to really think about this, a lot of those things are closed right now. And they will be for a while. So think about what affects our industry and what’s closed right now. And another reason why we’re doing so well. You know, entertainment, travel, concerts, all that stuff. Just cost way too much. It’s kind of disgusting in New York at least. So a lot of people are coming back to the sport because those costs aren’t existing in their debits and credits right now, right? So, you know, the way that that we’re communicating with them is still being open and still being here for them no matter. And then going to Walnut Creek is the same thing, right? We had those customers already, those are our clients, we just physically weren’t there. And I literally opened in Walnut Creek because I wanted to say hello, and tell them like, I’m here for you. And they wanted me there. I didn’t just go there outright, I surveyed the area, I spoke to my existing clients, and they all were begging for me. And why? Because they wanted my experience, I gave them the best experience over the phone, and they wanted it in person. And we’re doing that. So I’m just going to keep saying, you know, make everyone who walks out your door, have a good experience. And you’ll never lose to me being an internet guy on a sale, you’ll never lose to me, unless it’s a product you don’t sell. And they really want. And that’s fine to just take care of them with servicing it no matter what, you’ll never lose the client.

Heather Mason  46:09

Is it true to say that you would suggest that retailers make sure that their customers know who the owner is? I feel like your customers know who you are. Yeah, that goes a long way.

Al Cabbad  46:20

Yeah, it does. It does, you have to be mindful that not a lot of owners even ride bikes, even though they that’s a hidden truth. Not a lot of owners even ride bikes, right. And that’s, you know, private equity, venture capitalists type ownership. And then you got the hobbyist for one year, but bought a shop and then doesn’t write anymore because they’re busy, you know, trading oil or something. So, and then if you really look at the majority of the industry, right? A lot of the owners are older, and they’re kind of an E bikes should hopefully fix that. But a lot of them like my pops, he’s older, so it’s hard for them to even ride now. And that’s fine, you know, and he’s also a workhorse you just see loves to work and make people happy with bikes, so he doesn’t ride anymore. But he rode before, right? A lot of people haven’t had that experience. And I think it’s important to know, the leaders in the business. That’s the better way of saying it. Because the leaders are the ones who make decisions are the ones who understand. And I think it’s also shows that you can write, yeah, I plan on opening up more retail locations. And I plan on talking and dealing with all those customers no matter what, that’s R&A, right. And it’ll always be like that until the day I retire, which will probably be never, because that I think is the core of the beautiful part of our business is dealing with the consumer and affecting them in a positive way.

Heather Mason  47:51

I love dealing with consumers. When I was working with Eddie Merckx cycles, we were doing this Consumer Direct model at the time when we first launched in the US and I went to consumers home and sold it, you know, got him set up on the bike, set him out on a test ride. That was years ago, like 10 years ago, and him and I are still closest friends because we had that experience together. Yeah, yeah. So we have a lot of individuals who are looking to start a bike shop, you know, wanna buy an existing shop? Any advice you have, for someone thinking about getting into our industry? This is like a hot question.

Al Cabbad  48:20

I’m not just saying this, because you could be competition, just, it’s not easy. It’s not easy. It’s not fun at first, either, you know, it’s very difficult. And I’m a certain character that was blessed to have a father who started in amazing business and took it to the levels that I needed to take it further. And he worked his butt off and I worked my butt off. And even with the intensity that I took R&A, and even with everything my father laid down, it was not easy, and it’s still not easy. And everyday is a hustle and grind. And anybody who thinks otherwise is crazy. This is not a business that you can just buy into and expect it to run. It’s blood sweat and tears. And there’s nothing more than that. Everyone there’s a lot going on now. Right? There’s a lot going on now because if you look at the industry trends our industry has skyrocketed and whatever. But it’s not gonna always be that way. I mean, I hope it is. You know, I pray to my god that it will be but it’s the natural thing in life, right. We’ve had our ups and downs and we’re not very high up right now. But hopefully we won’t have a down for a while but it’ll come and even in today’s up we are hustling. I mean if I told you from the moment I opened up all night when I was opening up Walnut Creek 2019 when we were developing, constructing today, I am literally 12 hour a day person. You know I don’t I’m 12 hours a day. I work on the weekends for the most part. I have personal time. It’s one I’m supposed to sleep. And that’s not far off from most ownership in the industry. And why do we do it? Because we love it. So if you’re buying into this business do not think it’s easy. It is not. It is not.

Heather Mason  50:13

I hear that response, something like that response quite often. And it is a labor of love and the margins are tough, we can’t think you’re gonna buy into this industry or open up a shop and, you know, make hundreds of 1000s of dollars this year. It’s it’s a tough, you know, watch everything. Okay, so I guess,

Al Cabbad  50:30

before you go, there’s one thing to know, is our industry isn’t an industry you can just throw money at and it will make money. There’s a lot of industries, you can do that with this is not it. That’s the best way to put it. Now it’s so

Heather Mason  50:43

true, right? And in this industry is it’s about your it’s about your network, it’s about your relationship builder. I mean, there’s so many different aspects that come into play, right? And if you just love cycling, that’s not enough. You have to be a business person, you have to know you know how to build a website, you have like, there’s so much creating customer experience. There’s so much right? Yeah. Okay, so before we go, this is the question that I want to ask you. So you might have seen that we rebranded the America’s best bike share program to be the bicycle retailer excellence awards. And basically, we’re going to be awarding certificates to shops that are excellent retailers. So if I asked you what being an excellent bicycle retailer means to you, what would you say?

Al Cabbad  51:28

On the consumer level? Or at our level?

Heather Mason  51:31

Great question. at our level, yeah.

Al Cabbad  51:34

Our level is respect and reputation respecting each other, respecting other competitors and respecting manufacturers. And that includes the history of those manufacturers, right? And also reputation, right? You’ve known me before you were in the industry, and a lot of people known me throughout their life in the industry, and they all respect me. They might not like me, and I don’t I can’t answer but a lot of people like me, I think, but they respect us, they know that, that we mean business and that we don’t lie, I don’t lie, right? And I’ll give you an example. You know, customer takes a bike out, breaks, it comes back points the finger at me, right? And I’ll tell that customer, if I happen to be the one he’s pointing out, I’m going to give you a chance to tell me what you did. And then I’ll help you. And if he says, I’m sorry, I did this, I’ll move the moon for them. I’ll do whatever it needs, because they ask for help. You know, and I do the same with my manufacturers, right? So you know, I won’t lie to a manufacturer, Oh, you didn’t send me this? When they did. I’ll just say, hey, it’s, you know, I needed I lost it. And they’ll figure it out for me, right? So that reputation is very important, to be honest, and to work together. Now, if we’re talking consumer side,

Heather Mason  52:54

Yeah, I was gonna say Can I ask you about? What does it mean to be an excellent retailer to a consumer.

Al Cabbad  53:00

So on the consumer side is not basically being clear with your customer, being clear your customer upholding great service, creating an experience so that outside your shop, they have a good experience, and being more like a therapist, to the customer, and not so much a person just trying to sell, you know, you know, we’re not selling hotdogs here. This is this is therapy. So understanding that, yeah, your day might be harder, but there’s might be a lot worse, it’s not our job to get mad or to get upset, they come to us because they need us. They need that freedom of you know, while you ride a bike to be free and to enjoy life, right? So not just creating that awesome experience and enhancing the emotion that every cyclist puts into the bike, you know, whether it’s mountain, try track, road, gravel, whatever it is, right? Everyone has their reason and purpose. And it’s your job as a retailer to make it awesome. So anybody who makes that customers experience awesome, that much better, represents their brands properly, you know, respects their local retailers, competitors, then that makes a good retailer, I think,

Heather Mason  54:16

wow, I think you’re spot on. I remember I used to train my staff. When a customer comes in, you know, you do the greeting, right? And then you make eye contact, you walk up and it’s not about how can I help you and you as the salesperson might have a million things going on about you know, the two of the needs replaced in the service shop, the other customer in the booth section, whatever, you know, you might have a million things on your brain. But take a moment, take a deep breath and appreciate the person standing right in front of you and truly connect with them. I try to train my team, right. This is an old bike shop thing. The phones are ringing, I got to run and get the phone I gotta run and get the phone and I’m like, but there’s a person right in front of you.

Al Cabbad  54:54

He or she deserves everything from you. The phone can ring in 10 minutes and I’m from the old bike shop. mentality I used to run through the phone and all that. But if you answer the phone, you have to stop for the phone. But the customer is right in front of you. So you got to just look at what’s in front of you.

Heather Mason  55:12

Thank you for coming on. I mean, I asked you a lot of questions you shared so much. Thank you, your insights are great. And I do I feel like I know you. You know, even though we’ve never met in person, you know, we’ve done the virtual thing that we’ve worked together for some years now. But your reputation and just you as a genuine human comes across in everything you do. If the people who are listening to the show they want to learn more about R&A cycles are contact you Is there a best way that you would recommend they do that?

Al Cabbad  55:41

So I get like 7 billion emails a day, just call the shop. Alright, anyone can get me somehow. So if you really want to talk to just call me and we can talk you call the main line, I want to talk to Al even though they shouldn’t be doing that they will because they know I love talking to people. Just give me a call

Heather Mason  56:01

out thank you so much. So hopefully I’ll get down there. We’ll do that coffee soon. Right?

Al Cabbad  56:06

Definitely 100% 100% look forward to

Heather Mason  56:09

Alright, so that is it. I invite you to connect with me and come on bicycle, retail radio, share your story with our listeners. I invite you to contribute to our outspoken blog, you can become a feature on our member spotlight or even lead a webinar. Lots of love for our industry. There’s lots of great things happening. Don’t forget to share this episode with your friends and on your social media feeds. We appreciate your support. Thank you for listening, and we’ll see you back here soon.

NBDA   56:33

This has been bicycle retail radio by the National bicycle Dealers Association. For more information on membership and member benefits, join us at nbda.com.

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